Wikitroid:Requests for Comment/Possessive Nouns

This RfC was closed on 04:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC) by FastLizard4 {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs). Final resolution of no consensus; we'll stick with the old "unregulated" system (that is, use whatever you've been taught is correct, although consider making redirects, etc. to accommodate others). Please do not modifiy it.

Possessive Nouns
It has been brought to my attention that the primary form here of making singular possessive nouns from words ending in "s" is to simply add an apostrophie, as is done with "s"-ending plural nouns.

However, I would suggest that the norm be changed to all singulars getting an "apostrophie-'s'", instead. My reasons are as follows:


 * 1) The Metroid games and materials, to some great degree (research into which all do this would likely be needed), and at least of recent times, use this format. This being the Wikitroid, I feel it should be consistent to its subject matter.
 * 2) Immediate recognition.  All readers recognize apostrophie-"s" as a singular (including group words like "children", "people", and once upon a time "Metroid"), but not all may realize that (or may have to focus on) "s"-ending singulars might be handled like most plurals. Applying a singular standard would make things simple to discern, even.
 * 3) Possible confusion.  I don't know how many words there are that may act this way, but drawing back to those unaware or untreaded in the current format, the "s"-apostrohpie can make certain words unclear about if they are plural or singular. We know (or soon find out) that there are not more than one Samu, but some of the other, less prominent words may be hazy. Relatedly, in the article that prompted this request, I encountered " Amorbis' "; is the plural for "Amorbis" "Amorbis" (see: "sheep", "deer") or "Amorbises"?  This sort of ambiguity is confusing.

TJF588 21:25, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Question: Essentially, this boils down to whichever variant of English we wish to use. American English dictates that s' is always correct, regardless of whether the noun is singular or plural.  Saxon (British) English dictates that singular nouns should be given s's, while plural nouns should be given s'.  Note that this only concerns nouns that normally end in "s" (such as Samus and Amorbis).
 * Possible positions: American or Saxon (as described above)
 * Default if no consensus: American, as it is the primary form of English used on this site.
 * This information added by an administrator after the RfC was created. -- FastLizard4 {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) 05:06, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

 * American - As I noted above, American English is the primary form used on the site, thus we should stick to the American form. As for this making it unclear whether or not the word is is singular or plural, this isn't truly the case, as this can be determined by pronoun forms, subject-verb agreement, and other context clues (is/are, eats/eat, etc.).  -- FastLizard4 {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) 05:06, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * American This is American english wiki Samus is cool  talk. 00:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * American - No comment.Samuslovr1 03:39, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * American English - My opinion highly correlates with FastLizard4's reasoning. Armantula513 [ADMIN] (Talk&bull;Contribs) 23:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * American - Agrees with FastLizard4. To Samusiscool3, both ways are "english", but different types of english. The MarioGalaxy2433g5  { talk /contribs/Logs} 00:16, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Saxon - Well, you know my position, as I'm more concerned with the constructs of the source material being properly represented rather than a mold to form (in a language that is constantly evolving? Where does any English teacher side with not quoting a sentence-ending period that's not a punctuation included in a sentence-ending quote?). TJF588 05:55, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I see you don't know very many English teachers. -- FastLizard4 {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) 06:01, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Saxon - It'll help a lot when plural ammerpossessives start to come into play. -  (U • T • C ) 07:07, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * American English - Ok, ok. Let me just say something. I know for a fact, because I am quite good when it comes to the correct forms of English grammer. When it comes to s-apostrophe and apostrophe-s, here's how things work. When we're dealing with nouns, the correct plural-possessive way end it is with an s-apostrophe. For example: (pirates'), (troops'), (beams'). However, when dealing with proper nouns, the correct plural-possessive form would be in fact, apostrophe-s. For example, even though you would think the corect possessive form of Samus, would be Samus', it isn't. It is and should be written, or posted as, Samus's. Why? That would be because the "s" at the end of Samus, is part of the name, it isn't an expression of the name being plural. Therefore, since there is nothing currently making the name plural or possessive, you must add one. You must add a letter (s), with an apostrophe. Now let's just go back to improving Wikitroid! P i r a t e h u n t e r {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs) 01:58, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Can't find anything like that in my grammar book (which is rather new, 2002). -- FastLizard4 {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) 06:16, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I'm just saying what I know personally. Just voicing opinion. P i r a t e h u n t e r {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs) 00:43, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I've checked a few different resources, and it seems that no two sources agree. I have no idea what should be done here.  -- FastLizard4 {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) 07:00, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I thought both were acceptable ways. This also brings up the idea about typing in American English. I mean, what about words like gray, armor and defense? In Saxon English we spell them grey armour and defence, so is it still acceptable to spell that way too? If there are more people voting for the American English then i will have to spell in aAmerican English too, as will some other users. I think we should use both. Hellkaiserryo12 20:40, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, before this RfC, they were. But, TJF588 brought up the question of consistency, and that's why this is going on.  -- FastLizard4 {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) 07:15, 4 March 2009 (UTC)


 * American - This is indeed, from my impression, an American English wiki, as Samusiscool said, however, Piratehunter is correct. Wiki and what I've learned say "Samus's" (belonging to Samus) would be correct. (My otherwise unused grammar handbook agrees, in fact.) Now, she should always be singular, or the world has become a very strange place. On the other hand: Amorbis, Amorbis's; Amorbis, Amorbis'; and THEN, sheep, sheep's; sheep, sheep's. ... and I just confused the crap out of myself. No "real" English word exists like Amorbis (singular and plural the same, ends in "s"). AlishaShatogi 07:11, 5 March 2009 (UTC)