Wikitroid:Requests for Comment

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Implementation of non-canon, theoretical and spoiler templates
It has come to my attention recently that Wikitroid has become notorious for its large amount of speculation, too much non-canonical information (that Hellkaiserryo12 causes you to destroy a large amount of info on the page and/or mark it as real-life.) and too many spoilers that are unmarked. The latter issue has a policy, but they aren't marked.

This is why I have created this RfC, to question whether or not we should implement templates for these purposes. For example:

"Noncanon" template

[insert noncanon info here]

"Endnoncanon" template

The templates would add the page to a category for "Articles with non-canonical information". The same would go for theories, which would get a category for "Articles incorporating theory". The spoiler template wouldn't, though, as is standard with wikis incorporating the feature.


 * Question: Should Wikitroid implement templates and categories to indicate articles with non-canonical information, theories and spoilers?
 * Possible Postitions: Agree (if you would like these templates to be implemented), Neutral (if you are not sure), or Disagree (if you disagree that these templates should be implemented).
 * Default (no consensus): The templates/categories' status as a necessity is unmodified.

One last point: don't accuse me of starting the C&C RfC all over again with the noncanon part. It's supposed to be an extension of C&C. -- R o y b o y X  16:39, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Disagree: Not exactly sure how to format an answer with no preceeding ones, so I apologize if I needed to make a section or anything. Anyway, it's simple: We have a Metroid Fanon wiki. Speculation and theories and fanfic bullshit can go there. It's too much of a slippery slope otherwise. How do we decide which theories are too ridiculous and which are okay? If we require everything to be cited or drawn directly from the games, we avoid any technical confusions as well as avoiding confusing readers. No need to add new templates, no need to look unprofessional by becoming a soapbox for every dumbass with a crazy theory... Noncanon stuff, definitely. Big-Time and Smash Bros and Captain N? Those shouldn't have the same 'weight' as real Metroid stuff. So I'm not really sure if that's an agree or a disagree. It's kind of both, since part of your idea has merit and the rest is ridiculous. Dazuro 19:32, October 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: Can you name such examples of theories? And why is everyone obsessed with professionalism! Do you want to make us bland and outcasts because we have almost no sociality? We'd be unwelcoming. According to Piratehunter, the Assassin's Creed Wiki's users are very nice, and I think we ought to start being like them. Of course, they are overly social, and I'm not asking for that here. Just to be a little like other wikis and to be more interactive. After all, no personal interaction means no civility. As for the theories, we would only use theories based on evidence in games or related media. Everyone's a critic. -- R o y b o y X  19:40, October 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Disagree with RfC as it is written - What is the definition of non-canonical information? -- FastLizard4 {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) - Would you like to participate in the new forum trials? 23:32, October 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Reply - If there are sections for non-canonical manga, SSB, whatever, then they have a template indicating where they start, and where they end. Different templates, obviously, like here. -- R o y b o y X  23:56, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Mildly Disagree- Speculation, theory, and non-canon can mean a lot of different things. I would instead support an additional "extrapolation" template, for things like explanations of inconsitancies, reasonable possibilities, and connections between things in the game and real-world science/history. I would also want to make sure there is a strong distinction between reasonable and baseless speculation. --AdmiralSakai 00:20, October 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment - Just to clarify the non-canon, it would be an extension of the C&C policy. -- Р o й б o й X (Talk • Contribs • UN) 17:10, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree - In that case I change my vote to Agree.  "My name is  Admiral Sakai , and I approve this message."  17:25, February 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment - Okay... people, I'm going to address a small detail. Stop adding comments that say "Mildly Disagree" or "Disagree with RfC as written" or "Somewhat Agree". The possible position are traditionally placed at the head of the RfC for a reason, and in this case they are set as either Agree, Disagree, or Neutral. If you "slightly" disagree with the RfC issue, then state as such in your description that follows your vote. -- ا ل ق ر ا ص ن ة ه ن ت ر {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) 17:35, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment- What do all of you believe to be a reasonable "expiration date" for spoilers? (i.e., when should we remove spoiler templates from content). It would seem somewhat unreasonable to take up space with a warning to protect players from, in an extreme example, the knowledge that Samus Aran is female, in the event that they have not played the original Metroid. (That was something of a run-on sentance...)  "My name is  Admiral Sakai , and I approve this message."  19:48, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Discuss - Never. There may be readers who are new to Metroid and want to look up information on it. They would be there to warn them, regardless of game. If they read on, then fine, their loss. We warned them. And there's no need to mark Samus' gender as a spoiler. We all pretty much know she's a girl anyway. -- Р o й б o й X (Talk • Contribs • UN) 19:56, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree- Somewhat. I would like us to define exactly what material is non-canon before a template is implemented (that is, if the idea goes ahead). Not so excited about theories and spoiler templates, they don't really link in to this RfC. However, I am somewhat against both because: Theory templates encourage speculation and an encyclopedia really shouldn't contain speculation from opinions. We have to remain professional. Yes I know you may find that stupid or whatever RBX, but trying to remain objective which is what we strive for would be damaged by adding fan-theories. If it is implemented, I would like to see it used vary sparingly and not on every page where something relating to the topic is left ambiguous. For spoilers, the whole wiki is one big spoiler, I don't like the idea because defining spoilers would be much more difficult than defining non-canon material. You couldn't really apply a general rule as each bit of information that could be a spoiler would have to be debated. Also, what about Trivia? Trivia contains many spoilers and theories. Seperating them and so on would take a long time and be labourious. Do you really thing spoiler templates are necessary? The only other place I have seen them in use is Zeldapedia, where the only spoilers are really the final boss or antagonist due to the recycling of material in the games. Hell Kaiser ryo12 [ ADMIN ] (Talk&bull;Contribs) 19:07, February 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Discuss - I meant strongly believed theories and not just every single one we have. And spoilers would only go on plots but not certain points. For example:

[spoiler template]

[insert Queen Metroid info]

[end spoiler]

For any newbies to Metroid that are reading here we need to warn them. As I said, we warned them with the templates being there, but if they go on down, it's not our problem, we warned them, they didn't heed it and they spoiled themselves. -- Р o й б o й X (Talk • Contribs • UN) 19:12, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

Descriptive Names
As the U-# system has expanded, users have begun using short descriptive passages found within manuals, developer interviews, and strategy guides in addition to proper names for articles. However, treating these descriptors identically to proper names has proven largely unsuccessful and somewhat confusing. Therefore, I have drawn up a rough outline of a definition of descriptive names and some specific rules for their use:

A descriptive name is defined as: any 'a'rticle name consisting entirely of simple English words (uncapitalized) and other subject names, and arraigned in accordance with conventional grammar rules.
 * 1) As it is sometimes difficult to determine exactly where the "name" portion of a descriptive name ends, to prevent the names from becoming too cumbersome they should be of the least length necessary for them to make grammatical sense, to provide an indication of the identity of the subject, and to delineate it from other, similar subjects. For instance, the "massive" in "massive tentacle" would normally be removed, as it does not convey much information regarding the identity of the subject in question. However, it is required to separate the massive tentacle from the much smaller Leviathan tentacle. This applies to removing words from the middle of names as well as those at the very beginning or the very end.
 * 2) Descriptive names must be treated within text as conventional nouns, not proper nouns. In particular, they should be given definite articles such as "the", "a", etc.
 * 3) If the descriptor does not meet the same standards of professional voice that are applied to article text, it cannot be used as a name. The only incident I have seen of a name that would be rejected under this provision is a "communal" ULF that was described as "white squiggly things".
 * 4) The ordering, conjugation, and other such aspects of descriptive names can be altered to match conventional English language and professional voice, provided that the basic meaning of the descriptor remains the same.
 * 5) Descriptive names are to be identified as such by placing a "descriptive name" template at the head of the article. Seeing debate on the inclusion of templates, I have decided to restore that section to its default state (no templates) until such time as a conclusion is acchieved).
 * Question: Should the policy outlined above be implemented as it applies to descriptive names?
 * Possible Positions: Agree- if you agree with implementing the policy as it stands. Neutral- Undecided or unsure. Disagree- You are opposed to implementing the policy as it stands. Suggestions on improving the policy are always welcome from adherents of any position.
 * Default (No consensus): There will not be an official policy towards descriptive names.

Comment: Difficult to tell what the Agree/Disagree positions are. I'd like to see descriptive names kept, maybe with template disclaimers. ChozoBoy (Talk/Contribs) 23:05, March 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment': The names would of course be kept (in fact, I am hoping that the rules outlined here would allow a wider latitude in terms of the subjects that could be named using them), and although I had not considered a template necessary I would certainly not be at all opposed to one.  "My name is  Admiral Sakai ' , and I approve this message." 23:31, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Disagree: Apparently you have a vendetta for size types in names. "If [those] names [aren't] used then we can't use [them]. You ought to know that rule by now..." And can we just, like, find a name for something and make it have no template at all? If developers would just name the goddamn things then we wouldn't be having this conundrum. Fan names don't solve the problem of confusing readers at all, you say? They will know what an Omega Fusion Suit or SR227 is. Other wikis, such as Zeldapedia, do not have Unknown Name systems. They instead have a huge thing at the top of the article saying UNOFFICIAL NAME and the people of that sight choose a fitting name for the page. If they find an official name, great, they use it. I wouldn't name ULF 12 Semisentient organic structure but I would name ULF 13 Parasitic fungus, and I did. -- Р o й б o й X (Talk • Contribs • UN) 23:59, March 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment: I suppose I do have a "vandetta" for isolated size types in that they are rarely, if ever, necessary to delineate the subject of the article. A "large" Leviathan-class ship is only "large" if there is a "small" Leviathan-class ship, and when there is not it serves only to add an extra word to the article and any links we intend to create. I've little issue with articles such as "big Metroid" and "massive Tentacle", as those need some form of modifier to delineate them from normally-sized versions (which are in fact completely different things). Although I would be happy to participate in a descriptive name system, I feel that we should codify what these names will be before we replace the U-# system with them entirely. If this RfC passes, I will immediately write one to replace the U-# system.


 * You will have to debate the template issue with ChozoBoy, as I am entirely neutral in that regard.  "My name is  Admiral Sakai , and I approve this message."  00:11, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Agree: I think we need some guidlines for these names. Some of them can get a bit ridiculous. Hell Kaiser ryo12 [ ADMIN ] (Talk&bull;Contribs) 12:05, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: One possible solution to the template issue is to forgo the template and simply put the bolded name in quotation marks. That may or may not work, but I would like it to be considered. (It also makes me think of a quote, possibly from Dean Stockewll: "You know you have a good compromise when both parties walk away feeling screwed".....) '' "My name is  Admiral Sakai , and I approve this message." '' 13:13, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: We could even do both if we wanted to. My history instructor from last semester used to say, "Never underestimate the stupidity of the reader." ChozoBoy (Talk/Contribs) 13:55, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: "Never underestimate the stupidity of the reader." This site is truly filled with a bunch of assholes.

Comment: I agree mostly with what the anon just said. Chozoboy, that was completely inappropriate and unnecessary. Don't act so condescending and arrogant. Complete Supremacy 19:04, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: We are not here to harass ChozoBoy for quoting his history instructor. Please cofine your comments to the topic at hand. CB also makes a valid point that we must be certain to make Wikitroid as understandable and user-friendly as possible, especially given that not all of our readers will be of first-rate intelligence. If RoyBoyX does not object (or objects and is overruled??), I will include the quotation mark provision in the policy. '' "My name is  Admiral Sakai , and I approve this message." '' 19:37, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: Okay, I am now going to be a very tyrannical monarch at the moment... namely because, one, I am very pissed off for off-wiki reasons, and two, the constant bickering is getting old and thus adding to my pissy mood. To start off, the next goddamn time I see someone say one derogatory, offensive, insulting, or even slightly biased comment, I am blocking you for some random period of time, mirroring the punishment for vandals. I'll tell you if I see it. Secondly, ChozoBoy shut the fuck up with your college shit; no one give a damn about you being a fucking senior in college, and majoring in animation. Go to hell, in short (and no I'm not jealous of you, little boy, I'm a junior in cognitive neuroscience and a teacher of English and foreign languages, so piss off). And as a matter of fact, I do see you as a completely retarded imbecile, so kindly go die, so I can not miss you. And third, exactly what AS said, if a fucking RfC is going on about Article Names, then keep the bloody conversation(s) relevant to Article names. In fact me being the tyrannical monarch I am at this current moment I may decide to strike any comment that is empirically deemed irrelevant or otherwise redundant to the actual purpose of the RfC. Hell I may decide to abuse my power and start blocking [people for use of arrogant attitude(s). You never know, I'm just a tyrannical bitch like that at the moment. In short everyone, shut the fuck up and be "nice". In return, I won't block you, and I may stop bashing you for being retarded idiotic morons, and instead take pity on you. And just for everyone's own good, I strongly suggest that no one says something to me regarding this comment, and just take it into your minds and use it. In other words, read it, and do it. Because people saying something to me is just going to piss me off that much more. Which you will regret. -- ا ل ق ر ا ص ن ة ه ن ت ر {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) 20:09, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: As for the real matter on hand, I think that descriptors are important when they help distinguish between certain articles, but I don't like the fact that we need a "the" and "a" on every article. It takes up space and newer users when creating links might link to articles that don't exist. Then we have to reprimand said user and fix the problem. While it doesn't take up a lot of time, it isn't efficient. I quite like the ULFs because they're easy to link to and the most professional name that we can give to them. Complete Supremacy 21:52, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: [pointedly ignoring the Piratehunter/Complete Supremacy "debate" and focusing on, for whatever reason, the topic at hand.] I did not mean to suggest that "the" or "a" be added to article titles- that is, as you have said, cumbersome and unnecessary. I was referring to use of descriptors within the articles. That way, users are able to see more clearly that they are not proper names of any sort: for instance, an article with the opening sentance "Big Metroid is an anomaly within the Metroid life cycle..." would recieve a "the". '' "My name is  Admiral Sakai , and I approve this message." '' 23:47, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: I actually do agree with the point made regarding Big Metroid. The problem I would like to point out however, is that it is named via direct accordance with the Super Metroid Player's Guide. And although I loath the admission of Player Guide details as actual infallible/canon data, it is from the enemy list in the book. -- ا ل ق ر ا ص ن ة ه ن ت ر {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) 01:09, March 27, 2011 (UTC)

Remove the percentage in the RfA system
My colleagues and I have discussed how our RfA system is, to put it bluntly, quite bullscheiße. The percentage in the RfA system is the number one hinderance for most people to make it through the RfA system. The tally is fine, we don't have that big a community anyway so it doesn't really matter. My own third attempt would have passed were it not for the percentage, I had more supports tallied than negatives, and yet, it was the percentage that made me fail. In addition, ConstantCabbage's RfA was tied for support and oppose, which, providing he had received more supports, would have certainly made him an admin now. I'd say that, should this RfA pass through, no previous 'violations' should be grandfathered, and maybe my third RfA could possibly be reopened to try again, albeit without the percentage.


 * Question: Should Wikitroid remove the percentage function in the RfA system?
 * Possible Postitions: Agree (if you would like the percentage to be removed), Neutral (if you are not sure), or Disagree (if you disagree that the percentage should be removed).
 * Default (no consensus): The percentage's status as a necessity is unmodified.

One last note: say this RfC has been done out of pure selfishness all you want. I did not make it entirely with my third's failure in mind. I want this to go. Think of it! If we actually had a lot of users who were admins, we'd be unstoppable! Vandalism would not be heard of here!

Discussion

 * Agree: As RfC creator. -- Р o й б o й X (Talk • Contribs • UN) 00:56, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Disagree: Community consensus determines who becomes an admin. Percentages don't discriminate. How else would we determine who gets adminship? You want to replace it with what? The MarioGalaxy2433g5  { talk /contribs} 01:03, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Support: I was one of the users that said the RfA system is not the greatest. This is a good example of a good RfA process. RfAs should not be a straight vote count, but rather a decision based on community consensus. D o c t o r <font color=#008BFF>P <font color=#0097FF>a <font color=#00AEFF>i <font color=#00C5FF>n <font color=#00E6FF>9 <font color=#00FEFF>9 01:08, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment: In response to MG: remove the percentages and leave the tally system. I had 10 supports and 5 opposes but if it wasn't for the fact that I needed 80% support for success then I'd be admin. -- Р o й б o й X (Talk • Contribs • UN) 01:12, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Large majorities are needed to determine admin, otherwise we could end up with a split community. The MarioGalaxy2433g5  { talk /contribs} 01:18, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Also, the number of admins has very little to do with the amount of vandalism. It determines how quickly the vandalism is removed. The MarioGalaxy2433g5  { talk /contribs} 01:19, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, and number of admins also determines whether or not vandalism is or is not hear of on Wikitroid. Would you rather have more more incidents where you ignore other charges pressed against a user? -- Р o й б o й X (Talk • Contribs • UN) 01:24, June 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment That is the responsibility of the VSTF to tell a community's admins. If they don't, oh well. Also, how would admins be determined. You said keep the tally system, but never said the determining factor. The MarioGalaxy2433g5  { talk /contribs} 01:31, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Look at my third RfA. The odds were all in my favor with the tallies. Ten supports. 5 opposes. 1 or no neutrals iirc. It was just the damn percentage that kept me from getting admin back. So Ripley and Burke, humans are worse, and you do see them f---ing each other over a goddamn percentage. -- Р o й б o й X (Talk • Contribs • UN) 01:33, June 27, 2011 (UTC)