Wikitroid:Requests for Comment/Descriptive Names

This RfC was closed on 00:35, April 25, 2013 (UTC) by -- The Exterminator  ( talk &bull;  email  &bull;  contribs ). Descriptive names are implicated by Wikitroid:Use Common Sense. Please do not modifiy it.

Descriptive Names
As the U-# system has expanded, users have begun using short descriptive passages found within manuals, developer interviews, and strategy guides in addition to proper names for articles. However, treating these descriptors identically to proper names has proven largely unsuccessful and somewhat confusing. Therefore, I have drawn up a rough outline of a definition of descriptive names and some specific rules for their use:

A descriptive name is defined as: any 'a'rticle name consisting entirely of simple English words (uncapitalized) and other subject names, and arraigned in accordance with conventional grammar rules.
 * 1) As it is sometimes difficult to determine exactly where the "name" portion of a descriptive name ends, to prevent the names from becoming too cumbersome they should be of the least length necessary for them to make grammatical sense, to provide an indication of the identity of the subject, and to delineate it from other, similar subjects. For instance, the "massive" in "massive tentacle" would normally be removed, as it does not convey much information regarding the identity of the subject in question. However, it is required to separate the massive tentacle from the much smaller Leviathan tentacle. This applies to removing words from the middle of names as well as those at the very beginning or the very end.
 * 2) Descriptive names must be treated within text as conventional nouns, not proper nouns. In particular, they should be given definite articles such as "the", "a", etc.
 * 3) If the descriptor does not meet the same standards of professional voice that are applied to article text, it cannot be used as a name. The only incident I have seen of a name that would be rejected under this provision is a "communal" ULF that was described as "white squiggly things".
 * 4) The ordering, conjugation, and other such aspects of descriptive names can be altered to match conventional English language and professional voice, provided that the basic meaning of the descriptor remains the same.
 * 5) Descriptive names are to be identified as such by placing a "descriptive name" template at the head of the article. Seeing debate on the inclusion of templates, I have decided to restore that section to its default state (no templates) until such time as a conclusion is acchieved).
 * Question: Should the policy outlined above be implemented as it applies to descriptive names?
 * Possible Positions: Agree- if you agree with implementing the policy as it stands. Neutral- Undecided or unsure. Disagree- You are opposed to implementing the policy as it stands. Suggestions on improving the policy are always welcome from adherents of any position.
 * Default (No consensus): There will not be an official policy towards descriptive names.

Discussion
Comment: Difficult to tell what the Agree/Disagree positions are. I'd like to see descriptive names kept, maybe with template disclaimers. ChozoBoy (Talk/Contribs) 23:05, March 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment': The names would of course be kept (in fact, I am hoping that the rules outlined here would allow a wider latitude in terms of the subjects that could be named using them), and although I had not considered a template necessary I would certainly not be at all opposed to one.  "My name is  Admiral Sakai ' , and I approve this message." 23:31, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Disagree: Apparently you have a vendetta for size types in names. "If [those] names [aren't] used then we can't use [them]. You ought to know that rule by now..." And can we just, like, find a name for something and make it have no template at all? If developers would just name the goddamn things then we wouldn't be having this conundrum. Fan names don't solve the problem of confusing readers at all, you say? They will know what an Omega Fusion Suit or SR227 is. Other wikis, such as Zeldapedia, do not have Unknown Name systems. They instead have a huge thing at the top of the article saying UNOFFICIAL NAME and the people of that sight choose a fitting name for the page. If they find an official name, great, they use it. I wouldn't name ULF 12 Semisentient organic structure but I would name ULF 13 Parasitic fungus, and I did. -- Р o й б o й X (Talk • Contribs • UN) 23:59, March 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment: I suppose I do have a "vandetta" for isolated size types in that they are rarely, if ever, necessary to delineate the subject of the article. A "large" Leviathan-class ship is only "large" if there is a "small" Leviathan-class ship, and when there is not it serves only to add an extra word to the article and any links we intend to create. I've little issue with articles such as "big Metroid" and "massive Tentacle", as those need some form of modifier to delineate them from normally-sized versions (which are in fact completely different things). Although I would be happy to participate in a descriptive name system, I feel that we should codify what these names will be before we replace the U-# system with them entirely. If this RfC passes, I will immediately write one to replace the U-# system.
 * You will have to debate the template issue with ChozoBoy, as I am entirely neutral in that regard.  "My name is  Admiral Sakai , and I approve this message."  00:11, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Agree: I think we need some guidlines for these names. Some of them can get a bit ridiculous. Hell Kaiser ryo12 [ ADMIN ] (Talk&bull;Contribs) 12:05, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: One possible solution to the template issue is to forgo the template and simply put the bolded name in quotation marks. That may or may not work, but I would like it to be considered. (It also makes me think of a quote, possibly from Dean Stockewll: "You know you have a good compromise when both parties walk away feeling screwed".....) '' "My name is  Admiral Sakai , and I approve this message." '' 13:13, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: We could even do both if we wanted to. My history instructor from last semester used to say, "Never underestimate the stupidity of the reader." ChozoBoy (Talk/Contribs) 13:55, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: "Never underestimate the stupidity of the reader." This site is truly filled with a bunch of assholes.

Comment: I agree mostly with what the anon just said. Chozoboy, that was completely inappropriate and unnecessary. Don't act so condescending and arrogant. Complete Supremacy 19:04, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: We are not here to harass ChozoBoy for quoting his history instructor. Please cofine your comments to the topic at hand. CB also makes a valid point that we must be certain to make Wikitroid as understandable and user-friendly as possible, especially given that not all of our readers will be of first-rate intelligence. If RoyBoyX does not object (or objects and is overruled??), I will include the quotation mark provision in the policy. '' "My name is  Admiral Sakai , and I approve this message." '' 19:37, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: Okay, I am now going to be a very tyrannical monarch at the moment... namely because, one, I am very pissed off for off-wiki reasons, and two, the constant bickering is getting old and thus adding to my pissy mood. To start off, the next goddamn time I see someone say one derogatory, offensive, insulting, or even slightly biased comment, I am blocking you for some random period of time, mirroring the punishment for vandals. I'll tell you if I see it. Secondly, ChozoBoy shut the fuck up with your college shit; no one give a damn about you being a fucking senior in college, and majoring in animation. Go to hell, in short (and no I'm not jealous of you, little boy, I'm a junior in cognitive neuroscience and a teacher of English and foreign languages, so piss off). And as a matter of fact, I do see you as a completely retarded imbecile, so kindly go die, so I can not miss you. And third, exactly what AS said, if a fucking RfC is going on about Article Names, then keep the bloody conversation(s) relevant to Article names. In fact me being the tyrannical monarch I am at this current moment I may decide to strike any comment that is empirically deemed irrelevant or otherwise redundant to the actual purpose of the RfC. Hell I may decide to abuse my power and start blocking [people for use of arrogant attitude(s). You never know, I'm just a tyrannical bitch like that at the moment. In short everyone, shut the fuck up and be "nice". In return, I won't block you, and I may stop bashing you for being retarded idiotic morons, and instead take pity on you. And just for everyone's own good, I strongly suggest that no one says something to me regarding this comment, and just take it into your minds and use it. In other words, read it, and do it. Because people saying something to me is just going to piss me off that much more. Which you will regret. -- ا ل ق ر ا ص ن ة ه ن ت ر {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) 20:09, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: As for the real matter on hand, I think that descriptors are important when they help distinguish between certain articles, but I don't like the fact that we need a "the" and "a" on every article. It takes up space and newer users when creating links might link to articles that don't exist. Then we have to reprimand said user and fix the problem. While it doesn't take up a lot of time, it isn't efficient. I quite like the ULFs because they're easy to link to and the most professional name that we can give to them. Complete Supremacy 21:52, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: [pointedly ignoring the Piratehunter/Complete Supremacy "debate" and focusing on, for whatever reason, the topic at hand.] I did not mean to suggest that "the" or "a" be added to article titles- that is, as you have said, cumbersome and unnecessary. I was referring to use of descriptors within the articles. That way, users are able to see more clearly that they are not proper names of any sort: for instance, an article with the opening sentance "Big Metroid is an anomaly within the Metroid life cycle..." would recieve a "the". '' "My name is  Admiral Sakai , and I approve this message." '' 23:47, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment: I actually do agree with the point made regarding Big Metroid. The problem I would like to point out however, is that it is named via direct accordance with the Super Metroid Player's Guide. And although I loath the admission of Player Guide details as actual infallible/canon data, it is from the enemy list in the book. -- ا ل ق ر ا ص ن ة ه ن ت ر {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) 01:09, March 27, 2011 (UTC) Comment: Is there any reason this is still open? It's over a year old. Since I brought it up the other week, I think we should prefer "descriptive names" to ULF-style abbreviations, when we have them available. Articles with descriptive names should include the "Unverified Name" template, which requests a more official name, if one can be found. ChozoBoy (Talk/Contribs) 01:15, May 27, 2012 (UTC)