Talk:Ridley

Why Ridley's Clone Doesn't Have Memories in Other M
Because this has been quite a hot topic and people have gotten all hot and flustered when they realized they were wrong about it, I'll be taking a moment to clarify the evidence of why this new Ridley doesn't remember anything the original Ridley knew.

Cloning
Clones are not magical reincarnations of the original. It's not an asexual reproduction like an amoeba. In fact, the closest thing to cloning is actually having a child. Just... It's your genetic duplicate. While the clone will have an almost exact pattern of growth, and some predestined personality, the events that it grows up with are not the same. Say, Original Bruce Wayne saw his father shot right in front of him and vowed vengance on all evildoers; Bruce Wayne Clone (cloned after the traumatic event) will now have a predisposition for disliking injustice, but will not remember that Clone Dad was shot. Which brings us to...

Memories
Memories are images, sometimes sounds, that we can playback in our head. Much like a harddrive (but without the immediacy), the brain can fetch and retrieve 'data' it's stored. However, this data must first be stored. Sure, we can create data, and even implant data, but you need such data from a source. Now let's say we have drives HDR 1 and HDR 2. They're both the exact same model and have the same energy efficiency and RPM, but they have never shared data, with all data being stored in HDR2. Suddenly, Bruce Wayne destroys HDR 2, just when the User decided to move data onto HDR 1. The User CANNOT use Magic Missile to transfer the data had been destroyed to HDR 1, because there is no Magic Missile Drive. That data is gone for good.

Overall
As you apply these, Ridley Clone, as a new baby, would have no memories of his past life. The Galactic Federation could not implant his memories into his clone, even if they wanted to, because they A) didn't know it was Ridley and B) didn't have a copy of Ridley's memories.

However, it would be noted that he retains his predisposition towards intelligence and sadistic tendencies, which are demonstrated in Other M when he:


 * lured a scientist into his holding pen by playing possum


 * used Samus' powers and the Kihunters' natural 'defend hive' programming to get himself some honey


 * assessed and targeted the largest threat, Samus, as well as laid a trap for her

These bullet points absolutely imply Ridley's predatorial prowess. Ridley is, genetically, a sadistic cunning hunter.
 * took joy in Samus' fear, creeping closer and roaring ferociously instead of simply moving in for the kill.

Again, there is no proof that Ridley remembers Samus. The aforementioned bullet points only demonstrate predatorial prowess, NOT memories.

Inconsistencies
Now say Ridley does somehow remember Samus. It'll be time for those two, and us, to take a ride on the Inconsistency Train.

If Ridley remembers, then why doesn't everything scraped off Samus' armor remember? If all the monsters had been cloned in a way that somehow forced genetic memory by use of the Animus, why wouldn't the Zebesians rise up long before MB had a fit?

And the Zebesians, as well as the Metroids, were the prime targets of this cloned army. Ridley was an accident, and was treated as a pet, not continually made into a weapon. How would he, with no special treatment, somehow get magical benefits of implanted memories that the GF didn't even have? It simply doesn't pull together.

Regarding Genetic Memory Theory
While this does give Ridley the ability to remember through cloning, and only remember so much, it would mean that Ridley had the ability to alter his DNA in order to record memories directly to it. Now, not only is the ability force every single cell in a body to change its DNA so impossibly far fetched, but directly clashes with previous story elements.

At one point in the manga, the chozo had 'cured Ridley of his genetic flaws.' Ridley could have simply fixed them himself if he had the power to alter his own DNA. Building on that, he could have gone further and given himself laser eyes and methane bomb spewing things that he could explode with his fire breath, or even make himself fifty feet tall and survive in space!

So, if he had the ability to write his own DNA as he pleases, why isn't he flying through space and eating Samus' gunship whole? Extraxi 20:24, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Silly Discussion

 * That's fine Ex, but your opinions aren't going to dominate the page anyways, both sides will be put up. 173.215.223.164 14:17, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Unfortnately, I didn't lay out opinions. If you wish the other side to be put up, then explain, in detail, how the inconsistences become irrelevant, and the methods in which this new Ridley somehow regained memories independant of all the Zebesians. Remember, even with his 'regenerative ability', he can't regenerate something he never had; memories of a past life. Extraxi 22:45, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

i don't know how this message got deleted, but i said that this made me realize ridley doesn't have memories, but you should check out what admiral just said near the bottom. 68.169.40.21 00:29, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

When does it say the Zebesians encountered were cloned from material on Samus' suit? Oni Dark  Link  19:04, September 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * MB said it. Shadowblade777 00:20, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

No, she didn't. She said the Metroids were, then Samus said Ridley was. The Zebesians were entirely separate. Dazuro 00:24, September 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, entirely. It's not like they're on a big cloning facility already. Extraxi 07:09, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

You're right, it's not. Remember, the bioweapons program was more-or-less abandoned once they got the Metroid and Ridley cells. They were propagating organisms of other types before they polished the good ol' Varia suit. Dazuro 13:42, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

Possible Genetic Memory
For clarity's sake, I've decided to copy my genetic-memory theory here, since so many people are referring to it.

You're all assuming that Ridley forms memories in the same way Humans and other terrestrial life forms do, by means of proteins stored in the hippocampus region of the brain. But what if his memories are actually stored in his DNA? It is an information-carrying medium, after all... cells produce new DNA every time they divide, and I see no theoretical reason why they couldn't add on encoded memories while doing so, then read them off later. Sure, it wouldn't replace the regular way of doing it, because DNA splitting and transcription is far too slow to let you access, say, where you parked your car, but if Ridley's nerve cells somehow transferred long-term memories and knowledge to some sort of '"messenger" cells that transcribed them into DNA and carried that DNA to cells throughout his body to be included in their copy of his genome, and could then pull those memories out of the DNA at a later date and return them to the brain's conventional storage system, it couldvery well work. It's a complex process, but so are cellular respiration, thought, vision, and all the hundreds of other things that organic life does on a dialy basis. Now, that ability could either have been genetically engineered into Ridley, or it could have evolved naturally in his species, because being able to pass down experiance and knowledge directly from parent(s?) to child would represent a huge survival advantage. If the GF got ahold of Ridley's DNA and cloned him, that clone would then be able to unpack the stored memories and then re-integrate them into its own brain, without resorting to supernatural means that may or may not be presant in the games.--AdmiralSakai 20:26, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Yes I was thinking Genetic Memory as well we don't know anything about his exact origin and Ridley often semmingly comes back from the dead after being preacticaly destroyed( 2nd Defeat in Curruption) A genetic memory whether or not it was natural or not could help explain inconsitencies seeing as by constantly taking updated DNA samples Ridley could be revived with all of his knowlege up to the point of the sample efectively making him practialy unkillable like we see throuhout the series. I also would leave the opritunity for future revivals as long as any Ridley DNA samples remain.Dragrath1 17:56, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

AdmiralSakai, you say that a lot of people think that Ridley's memory works like a human's, and then you ask what if that is not how Ridley's memory works. What a leap. You are coming up with the idea of genetic memory working like Assassin's Creed. If you mean "instinct," sure, I agree that Ridley has that. Then again, so do humans. What I am trying to get across here is that you may think that there is no need to believe that Ridley's memory works like humans, but then there is also no need to believe that Ridley's memory does not work like humans. Metroid Fan 18:07, September 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Added a subsection title for this. Also, I through about this whole idea for a while, and a lot of things just started bugging me one day. If he ever bled a little, he'd lose some long term memories. While DNA is rich with information, there isn't that much room to store much extra beyond instincts. On top of that, when cloning, you're only taking one or several particular cells to get a full DNA sequence from it. If Ridley had written out his memory throughout his DNA, he'd have to remember a multitude of things across different cells. Cloning one strand of DNA would result in the same memory spread across his entire body. And saying outright that the one that was cloned was the 'I hate Samus' cell would just be silly and far far far too coincidental.


 * Also, Assassin's Creed's form is a heavily exaggerated version of instinctual nature. The whole thing, in reality, would be that Desmond has a higher capacity for assassin nature, not that he has a record of their very existence. Extraxi 18:18, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * oh I had started a new section for this too... oh well and If Ridely had a genetic memory he woudn't loose memories by bleading out as the memeries in ther entirety would be encoded in a single strand of his DNA so he would have full memories up to the point the sample was taken (If Ridley had a sample taken and was killed and revived he wouldn't have memory of that Death). Like I said Ridley could by controling this technique with a fail safe expirement used this to revive himself from compleate destruction like his second defeat in Corruption. In addition I think it is more plausible than the regenerated by phason idea for that encounter.Dragrath1 18:49, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there's.. not enough room for a life of memories on a single strand of DNA. Your entire brain hardly does. Extraxi 18:52, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actualy only a small part of the Brain is linked to memories and all evidence points to storage there being endless ever read anything about nuerology?Dragrath1 19:10, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, most of the stuff in your brain is not particularly important. If Ridley had some measure of conscious control over the process, he could select only important memories like "That time I got my tail kicked by the crazy lady with the gun" for transcription and ignore all the day-to-day drivel that nonetheless takes up a lot of space. Also, he could simply sacrifice depth and sensory detail to make each "file" smaller, removing for instance the appearance of environments he remembers and leaving only knowledge of the important events that took place there. Which would also make dying a fairly traumatic experiance because he would subsequently have to piece together the fragments of his own past. Lastly, DNA strands vary wildly in length between species- Ridley could always just add new base pairs of memory onto the end... I suppose there might be some sort of upper limit where it just takes too long to replicate during cell division, but that is likely really, really big.--AdmiralSakai 19:18, September 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, Dra, I don't mean to be insulting, but you probably have read a lot less on it. Also, I don't think Ridley would have such control. He probably would have devised his own weapon that would drain Samus of everything had he has the capacity to super-intelligence, and put it on a robot that didn't suck. Extraxi 19:47, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think he'd need an increadible amount of intelligence to have voluntary control over the process- it could just be that he focuses on a memory in a certain way or does something with it that we can't describe because we don't have the ability, and his brain does the rest. He's not thinking "OK, now I'll add guanine to represent that bit of lava... I'll skip the pattern of the floor tiles and move onto writing in how I felt when that Super Missile hit me" as he's fighting Samus. However, you bring up an interesting point: Ridley obviously has a lot more cranial capacity than a Human, and although he's very smart he's not increadibly brilliant. What is that extra brainspace doing?--AdmiralSakai 19:57, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thinking about eating things. Yum! I'm definitely chalking this genetic thing to overthinking, though. Organic creatures can't really access their own brain like a computer, and then command their cells to rewrite their own DNA. Y'know what? That second half is proof enough for me. If he had the power to rewrite his own DNA, he'd give himself some laser eyes. No doubt. Extraxi 20:15, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * My point is that he does not need to rewrite his own DNA concsiously. That would in all liklihood be a fairly crude autonomic process in which each protein storing part of a memory in the brain automatically triggers a "scribe" cell that moved about within that region to add a corresponding brief nucleotide sequence to its own DNA (or a specific region where only "to be included" memories are placed). When that cell has enough added, it distributes it to other scribe cells that go about the process of moving throughout his body and adding that new memory DNA into all the other somatic cells. The DNA formation is not consciously directed at all, and cannot produce anything other than memory, as those specific nucleotide sequences do not dictate the formation of any traits other than the memory proteins.--AdmiralSakai 22:15, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * So, where did you get that idea? Because I've never heard of such a thing before. Th e Ex t er m in at or  {ADMIN} ( talk  &bull;  e-mail  &bull;  contribs  &bull;  count  &bull;  logs ) 23:11, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I got the idea from a Star Trek episode where a guy is cloned and retains his memories because Humans store memories in our DNA. The episode was way off the mark in that Humans cannot do any such thing and they explained it all wrong (in fact, its preposterousness was what made it memorable), but when I saw "memory" and "cloning" in here I immediately thought of it and started thinking "How could I change that premise to make it workable?" A little thought and my un-repressed memories of Advanced Placement Bio then led me to the outline you see above. There are no doubt problems with it, but the idea is actually fairly flexible, enough to accomodate pretty major changes in its workings.--AdmiralSakai 23:52, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * The problem with that is it's pretty much fanon. It's made up and never once mentioned in official Metroid-related data (as far as I know). Yeah, it's a good idea; but it can't be put in the article unless it's officially confirmed. Th e Ex t er m in at or  {ADMIN} ( talk  &bull;  e-mail  &bull;  contribs  &bull;  count  &bull;  logs ) 23:57, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I never intended for it to appear in the article, except maybe in some sort of "mechanics" section as with the Shock Coil, another apparant scientific impossibility. It was mainly intended to get certain people to accept that Ridley might have remembered Samus in Other M without getting into supernatural "spooky" explanations.--AdmiralSakai 00:05, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

Genetic memory possibility
Admiralsakai put forth a very plaussible explanation for Ridley retaining his memories. If Ridley had a Genetic Memory which would aloww long term Memories to be incoded in his DNA(or DNA equivelent) he could effectivly be resurected by cloning. If Ridley had this kind of memory possibly as a genetic modification (nothing is really known about his origin) it could explain a few of his returns from defeats (such as the End of Omega Ridley) as well as his willingness to charge to the front lines against powerful foes like Samus.

here are the following possible implcations-

1)Ridley could with a genetic memory, create a fail safe cloning process to revive him should he ever be killed (possibly with fail safes to prevent the creation of a second Ridley while he was alive to pervent competition with himself)-stored DNA would have to be updated

2)Ridley would still be able to return in the future should some samples of his DNA remain

3)Ridley could remain active for indefinate amounts of time(not with out DNA renewal)

In other words this could explain his constant revivals while he retains his memories through out the seriesDragrath1 18:35, September 26, 2010 (UTC).

There's only one inconsistency with Ridley's apparent deaths and that's in corruption. Even in that game he isn't confirmed dead in the log books. At the end of Metroid and Zero Mission he was injured. At the end of Prime he was again injured (falling of a cliff is the biggest used thought to be dead circumstances in fiction). At the end of Super Metroid he was killed. He was cloned in Other M and killed or near killed at the end of that. In fusion he is still in that state before getting infected by an X Parasite and falling apart. Oni Dark Link  18:42, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

In Prime 3, it didn't count as a kill, so he's still alive 18:44, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Haha... Sanki... Also. You have to say where this automatic cloning device would be and how it would detect if Ridley's vitals failed. Because it's not on Zebes. ;D As well as how it got updated genetic material from time to time if he was directly at Samus' neck for a good while.

Also, the indefintie time thing is automatically debunked. When cloning something, you're making a copy of something already so old. Meaning; a clone has the life span of how much life the original had left. Extraxi 18:47, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

When I said incosistancies I was refering to Metroid Prime 3 and Extraxt you are corect about the cloning - good catch also the cloning device could actualy be in any room where samus never went. Do you think samus went to EVERY room on Zebes or other Pirate controled locations. And either way though I should add such a machine probably wouldn't exist anymore if it was on Zebes...Dragrath1 18:58, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Errors fixedDragrath1 19:02, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

If Ridley had memories, wouldn't all the other bioforms too? Shadowblade777 19:50, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand Shadowblade why would what other bioforms have memories I'm trying to show why it's possible for Ridley to have genetic memories not other unrelated bioforms(Ridley might not even have perfect Genetic memory or have this memory at all) I'm not sure you understand...Dragrath1 21:01, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

That's irrelevant, Extraxi. Assassin's Creed is fiction, much like Metroid. The only difference is that this genetic memory nonsense is not proven at all for Metroid: Other M. It's assumed, and what really pisses me off about Wikitroid is that a lot of you like to dick around and come up with irrelevant and unnecessary theories. This site should be based on what we know about the game, not what we think we can theorize about the game. That's what fanon sites are for. And forget genetic memory. If anything, all Ridley displayed was instinct. Metroid Fan 14:59, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

Why would instinct make him coincidentally stalk and torture his "long-standing nemesis?" But on a slightly different note.. Before Other M showed that he'd previously never necessarily "died," cloning was a common fan-theory for how he kept coming back. I remember for a while people swore Prime confirmed he was cloned even. Yet no one ever questioned back then whether he kept his memory. Why is this such a hot issue all of a sudden? Dazuro 15:11, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

Alternate theory: Little Birdy is Ridley's regeneration cycle
Is it possible that Little Birdy isn't in fact a clone of Ridley but instead he's the space dragon himself? After we've blown him up, the surviving cells/organs/whatever simply start forming into Little Birdy, then eventually the lizard...thing, and finally back into the dragon we know and love hate? That would explain why we don't see much of him (approximately one game) after we kill him but he comes back. That's also my theory on why Ridley wasn't in Echoes, he was too busy munching. The Cloning was simply a quicker boost to reobtain his body Splice&amp;Dice 02:41, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

See, that was my theory for a long time. I was certain it was the same Ridley. But Samus explicitly says that Ridley was "in the same way" as the Metroids after MB says they were cloned from Samus-borne cells. So sadly, our theory is debunked. Dazuro 02:54, September 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * bowchikawowow Extraxi 03:40, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup
I've marked this article for a cleanup due to the jarble in the paragraphs. Lots of information I've never heard of in this article, so if you find sources that confirm these things, please put them in the article, even a link to a website is fine. I'll work on it later.--Richard 21:07, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Timeline
We need a reason why Ridley is fully organic again in Super Metroid. I have made 4 possible timeline theories for Ridley after his first encounter with the Hunter:

Timeline A: (Ridley going to Tallon IV) 1. Ridley 1 is defeated (not destroyed) in the Ridley Area on Zebes during Zero Mission. 2A. When the Zebesian Pirates split in two groups (or possibly more, as there are still 2 frigates whose fates are unknown) after the Fall of Zebes, the group that went to Tallon IV took Ridley (who might have been heavily wounded) with them. and fixed them with their cyborg technology, creating Meta-Ridley. 2B. The Zebesian Pirates started cloning Ridley, the DNA samples they used for this might have been from before or after his initial defeat on Zebes. 3. The Hunter attacks Orpheon, and Meta-Ridley is forced to flee to Tallon IV. Meta-Ridley is defeated through the combined effort of the Hunter and the Chozo statues. Meta-Ridley falls into the Impact Crater, and most likely escaped while Aran was fighting Metroid Prime in the Impact Crater. 4. MP3C happens, and this Ridley is completely destroyed. (will not tell anything else due to spoilers) 5. Super Metroid: The successfully cloned Ridley from Zebes attacks Ceres and steals the last Metroid. He MIGHT have been completely destroyed in this game, either from his battle with the Hunter or the destruction of Zebes, although I think it's not likely, as the Federation apparantly has a frozen Ridley on the BSL research station, this Ridley might have been another clone, though.

Timeline B: (Ridley staying on Zebes, as it was intended before Prime) 1. Same as above. 2A. When the Zebesian Pirates split in two groups (or possibly more, as there are still 2 frigates whose fates are unknown) after the Fall of Zebes, the group that went to Tallon IV took some DNA samples of Ridley with them, cloned him and altered him with cyborg technology; creating Meta-Ridley. 2B. The Zebesian Pirates kept the Original Ridley. 3. Same as above. 4. Same as above. 5. Super Metroid: The Original Ridley from Zebes attacks Ceres and steals the last Metroid. He MIGHT have been completely destroyed in this game, either from his battle with the Hunter or the destruction of Zebes, although I think it's not likely, as the Federation apparantly has a frozen Ridley on the BSL research station, this Ridley might have been another clone, though.

Timeline C: -All Ridley's are clones (Zero Mission one might have been the origibal, though).

If one of the theories above were to be true, it is unknown why the High Command didn't just order an army of Ridleys to be made, thus making any other means of conquest (through Metroids, Phazon or the base on Zebes) unneccesary.

Timeline D: -As stated in the article, all Ridley's are the same entity, save for Ridley-X, which is a X-clone of the frozen Original. Although the "massive phazon exposure from the explosion recreates his organic tissue" is highly unlikely, I don't see any other way of him surviving everything. Maybe his Meta-Ridley armor was removed or something?


 * Woah, long post. However, I'm sorry to say but theories aren't really helpful. If we could find info from Nintendo or something, then we could put it in the article. For all we know, these are all the same Ridleys. However, we'll never know unless Nintendo officially confirms this. Nice timelines though.--Richard 01:27, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

The reason Ridley is organic again is because he eats other organisms to rebuild his organic body. I forgot where I heard this, but I know it to be true. SA-X96 20:23, October 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I know I heard it on the main page of this article. It says that that fact is said in the Manga. DoomZero 20:32, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that is where I heard it. One day, I got really bored, so I read all the manga about Samus' beginning. Thanks! SA-X96 23:14, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Ridley>Meta Ridley>Omega Ridley
According to Metroid: Zero Mission, Meta Ridley is the Final Boss when Samus tries to escape Zebes after her ship is shot down. As this is a more recent game, it should supersede the information in Metroid and thus Meta Ridley's first creation and appearance is as the final boss in Metroid: Zero Mission and should be edited as so. I also believe that the Meta Ridley seen throughout Metroid Prime is meant to be the same Meta Ridley as seen at the end of Metroid: Zero Mission after escaping the base there on Zebes.

As an explanation as to why he is normal again in Super Metroid, it is partially explained at the end of Corruption that after destroying all the Phazon from its original source everything it infected returns to normal as before. As Ridley only survived due to merging with the Phazon during Corruption it is logical to assume that once it was removed he was revived in his original form, similarly to how Samus returns to normal as well. He was either fully rejuvenated or quickly received medical attention, in either case he returned to his original self.


 * Actualy Mecha Ridley is the last boss of Metroid Zero Mission. There is several differences between the two. The major difference is that Mecha Ridley is a robotic version of Ridley (a fake to say it quickly) and Meta Ridley is a cyborg (Ridley combined with robot parts). MarioGalaxy2433g5 21:08, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Temporary Suggestion
As done on many other wikis that require explanation that the creators are not providing, someone could find a Metroid forum and place theories from forums (not me, I can't find any) to how Ridley became organic again. Darqlink51 01:13, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Geoform 187
I was going through the Metroid Prime logs, and I found one Space Pirate log that looks very interesting. It says Ridley is a codename for 'Geoform 187', a little about Meta Ridley, and that Meta-Ridley is the 'mainstay of security'. Does this mean Ridley wasn't the leader of the Space Pirates? Are there 186-plus some other huge scary guys like Ridley and Kraid?...and how come no one else noticed the scan?--1upD 02:15, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * We noticed the scan, it is just we never said anything. Darqlink51 clearly noticed it, he made a redirect for Ridley named Geoform 187. Also Kraid could have been one of the 186 before Ridley. Also Ridley's place as leader has been disputed ever since Prime came out. MarioGalaxy2433g5{Metroid/Mario Admin} {talk/contribs/Logs} 19:50, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I noticed it too,i wandered the same thing like Kraid,it keeps me wandering if theres like 187 of these things like him why cant they afford to lose him and always bring him back?I just think because with all the oppressive forces like the Galactic Federation and possibly the Ki-Hunters that they cant really afford to lose him,187 is not a big number even if they are huge and tough.

Anyone ever thought that maybe the pirates did expirements to enhance creatures with mechanical parts, similar to what they did with phazon? Ridley could be the 187th expirement. The Exterminator 00:05, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Weird. "Geo" means "of the earth". The MarioGalaxy2433g5  { talk /contribs/Logs} 22:54, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Shady sources....
The biography for Ridley is highly detailed, and contains a very ample amount of information on Ridley's background. But I have played through every main Metroid game (excluding the final 10% of Corruption) to 100% completion, I've read the first 7 chapters of the E-Manga, and I had never even seen half of the information written there! Could someone please shed some light on the sources of this mysterious information? (Such as the mass extinction program against the "Space Dragons", and Ridley's mission to eradicate chozo inhabitants of Zebes, and so on & so fourth...) Armantula513 03:13, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

'Space Dragon Mass Elimination Program'
Seriously agreeing with Armantula here. Where did most of Ridley's background come from? I was thinking the same thing the other day. This seems like guesswork/fanon. ChozoBoy 18:09, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It came from a secret inside informer at BSL. 0_o--1upD 18:02, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * ...thus it should be edited out somehow. -Gamok

So, admins... Are we taking this out (Also on Space Dragon, which I'm not sure is a correct specie name), or are we going to contact the writer for a source first? This all seems very misleading, but I'd hate to remove important information on the off chance that this was from one of the few media I haven't read, like Samus and Joey. ChozoBoy 00:26, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * All that info is from www.metroidguide.com. I would know; I've read that article. what we need to do is ask nintendo to confirm or deny it. --DekutullaZM 15:59, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

It's not true. There is a disclaimer at the bottom of the website saying: '''This website has no affiliation with Nintendo ©. All information contained herein is purely fictional.''' It's non canon.--Tuckerscreator 17:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I know that. I'm saying that's where the info comes from and that nintendo should tell us "yes, we agree with them, lets make it canon" or "no, that's nonsense, ignore them". --DekutullaZM 21:45, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Nintendo doesn't need to comment on fan sites. ChozoBoy [ADMIN] (Talk/Contribs) 01:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * If Nintendo has made no comment regarding the canoncity of major works like the 2002 manga, then they're probably not going to speak about websites like this one. The site's own words should be enough.--Tuckerscreator 01:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

All right, I surrender. I was just saying that's where I originally saw this thing. If it's non-canon, then take it down. I give. --DekutullaZM 15:07, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Wait a minute, are you sure it was from this site? While the site does have a lot of speculation and fanon, such as on Ghor's bio, I saw nothing on Ridley's that said that the Federation exterminated his species.--Tuckerscreator 18:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

What?? No! It was metroidguide.com that said that! Or... are you not beating the dead horse? Are you talking about something someone else said?

X
Mabye "Ridley X" Is related to ridley. EX: its his dad. Samusiscool2 00:33, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * This theory has already risen on Talk:Ridley-X. I think the player's default assumption is to think that it is really Ridley who was frozen, but when you think that you forget the possibility that it could be just another Space Dragon. Long Live the Squees! Squee master  01:09, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Possible Based On...
Seeing as I've heard that Metroid is based on the Alien series, I've noticed that some of Ridley's artwork/forms seem similar to the Xenomorph, with dragon-like body parts used for the head and wings. Does anyone else here notice a resemblance. If they do, I may add this to the trivia as a possible influence in his design. Dark Ridley 20:06, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, i'm starting to notice it too, his chest area has a clear rib cage showing, and the tail. However, the head is exluded, it is simply elongated because Pterodactyls have heads like that, after all he is based on them most. Hell Kaiser ryo12 [ ADMIN ] (Talk&bull;Contribs) 20:49, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Look at the original NES metroid... Ridley looked similar to the Xenomorph, His head was way bigger than the pterodactyls head.(Metroid101 02:31, January 15, 2010 (UTC))

Ridley's last name
I herd his last name is Mc'Macintire and also can ridley speak english?-69.118.78.130 22:54, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Ridley is scotish? Anyways give us a source on that name and he speaks jappaneese in the E-Manga which as been translated to english so yep.  Metroidhunter32  01:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

If you have IO on demand go on free on demand and go to lifeskool go to video games and select metroid-207.241.247.1 15:20, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I didn't know Ridley had a last name. I never really thought of that. Where did you hear that? SA-X96 02:19, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

His last name is probably some numbers, I doubt that his last name is Mc'Macintire, somebody was probably kidding you.--Captain Silver 07:30, January 18, 2010 (UTC)Captain Silver

He wouldn't have a last name, due to Ridley most likely being a codename for his real subject name. I base this on the face that Meta Ridley was a codename for his real name, which was simply Geoform 187. -Serrix

Cold, lifeless eyes?
What exactly is that from? I don't think it's from any of the games..--Shard1697 03:55, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Dunno. I always remeber him as having rather inteligent eyes and in Metroid Prime it looks like his eyes are actually on fire.  Metroidhunter32  15:59, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, all the pirates in Prime had flaming eyes. Hellkaiserryo12 16:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe this is what one would call artistic license, in the literary sense of the term. It is more of a literary tool meant to evoke feeling than it is necessarily the truth. Aside from that, I think that Ridley has quite a flamboyant pair of spectacles, not devoid of life in the slightest! Armantula513 [ADMIN] (Talk&bull;Contribs) 11:43, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, in manga, ridley has sort of smart, intellectual eyes. In prime, they are powerful looking and in super metroid they are a softer version of prime's eyes. SA-X96 02:26, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Zebesian?
In the original manual for Metroid, Ridley is said to be "the original Zebesian" which implied that his species was native to the planet before disappearing for unknown reasons. Could Ridley's species possibly be the Zebesians? The question is: Is the original Metroid manual still canon? One might point out that Metroid Zero Mission was supposed to recon it but its manual actually says nothing about Ridley not being a Zebesian, simply because he was barely mentioned and not even seen in the manual(Kraid held the bigger spotlight for the time being.) The Chozo have already been stated as not being native to Zebes. It seems pretty likely to me that Zebes was Ridley's homeworld, which is why he wanted the planet so much. User:Tuckerscreator 5:26 17 March 2009

Likely retconned. Peegai 11:31, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Other M has me thinking he might be Zebesian as well. At one point Samus finds an alien corpse on the Bottle Ship that looks a lot like Ridley which she says "looks like a Zebesian". The head and body structure do fit appearance wise only difference being it didn't appear to have wings as far as I could tell but given that it seems to have been "modified" at some point it's possible the wings were removed The Krypt Angel 23:54, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Pictures
I think we may have too many pictures on this page. I think we may need a gallery.Dark Ridley 03:18, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

SSB
http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/sb/sbshot_ridley.jpg

Now stop that. Dazuro 01:40, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

We've talked about this before. You cannot continue behaving like this here. Everyone is working together on this wiki and you won't get anything out of acting rude. Now if you don't cite your sources in or during the edit you can't expect anyone to believe it. The sprite is a lot less detailed than Super's and in the original posture, but if you feel strongly enough about it, then that is fine but if I see you treating other users the way you have been treating me then there will be a problem. ChozoBoy [ADMIN] (Talk/Contribs) 02:11, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

You can't be serious. The sprite used is the one straight out of SM, with the tail posed awkwardly. There is no question about that. M1's looks completely different. What, do you want me to start citing the fact that Samus has two legs? Anyone with eyes can see that, just as anyone with eyes can see which Ridley sprite is used. I shouldn't have to cite blatantly obvious things. Why exactly can I not behave like this? What is "behaving like this"? Making constructive, accurate edits to articles, and reverting mistakes made by an incompetent administrator? Funny, I've never heard of anyone objecting to fixing things before. I'll take note to be counter-productive like you in the future, though. Thanks for the tip.

Also, you didn't give any citation at all beyond "this is true". Are you somehow exempt from your own rules just because of your rank? Dazuro 02:25, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Lower Jaw?
In the 2D ones, he's weak everywhere in his body. In 3D, he's weak to the chest. Where did this "lower jaw" thing come from? Sure, you can stun him by shooting him in the mouth, but that has no specification to his lower jaw. Does he take more damage to his beak-bottom than anywhere else in any game? As far as I know, this is completely meaningless, but in an effort to appease the Wrath of Chozoboy, I'm asking here first. :3 Dazuro 18:44, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure it is likely related to Kraid's similar weak-point in that it may do more damage. An illustration in the SM guide depicts firing missiles and super missiles into his mouth, but does not elaboarate on this. Maybe examining some Speed Runs will shed some light. Also, don't be a jerk. If everyone else on every wiki can use a talk page before they amputate half an article, than so can you. ChozoBoy [ADMIN] (Talk/Contribs) 19:01, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Cripes, I can't win. Even when I try to do as you say you bite my head off. -_- What's all that about Kraid? Does he take more damage to the lower jaw than the rest? You said "may do more damage", indicating that you don't mean Kraid's mouth in general, since no where else does any damage... As for "amputating": The point of a Wiki is that anyone can edit it. If an edit is in dispute, it gets discussed and fixed. If we have to okay every minute correction, what's the point of letting anyone but the admins edit anyway? "Hey I found a typo, is it okay if I fix it?" Unless it's something actually debatable, there's no point in debating it. Incidentally, this is debatable, and you'll note that I debated it. But as usual, people only notice when someone does something wrong, failing to ever realize "hey, he's trying". And then you call me a jerk. Dazuro 19:10, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I personally disagree with the "lower jaw is his weak point" idea. First of all, Ridley's weak point has generally been his chest, such as in Zero Mission, Prime, and Corruption. Before one points out his health dropping during the first battle on Norion, I would like them to notice a few things. Firsts, Ridley does not exhibit any major death signs after being defeated. I would argue that the battle is essentially one trying to push him to the bottom rather than hitting in a lethal location, kinda like a battle of tug-of-war, only backwards. Even after being defeated in that battle, he still clearly alive, just flailing about, because there is nowhere left for him to grab. As for shooting his mouth to stun in him in the Seed and at the Impact Crater, remember, if you shoot anyone in the mouth, it's going to hurt, but there it only served to stun him, not damage him. Ridley's weak spot is more likely his chest, which makes far more sense. User:Tuckerscreator 14:21 25 April 2009

Safe to Say?

 * Next to nothing is known of his pre-military background (if in fact he even had any), but it is safe to say that he made his way up the ranks until finally he was bestowed the designation as leader of the Space Pirates in battle.

I'm doubtful of this assertion for several reasons:

1. Ridley is a different species than all the other Pirates. I think that the other Space Pirates, even up to High Command itself, would give Ridley special attention the moment he arrived.

2. This is a fan guess, not just about Ridley's history but about Pirate society in general as well.

3. It also claims that there is some hints at his past e.i. "Next to nothing" when there is in fact none.

So we need to fix this User:Tuckerscreator 22:22 08 May 2009

I found it more vague than fanon, but if you want to write a new opening, go ahead. ChozoBoy [ADMIN] (Talk/Contribs) 01:58, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

What do you think it should sound like, then? Any suggestions? User:Tuckerscreator 20:11 10 May 2009

Something representative of the character that introduces him to an audience that might not be familliar (or at least as familliar as we are) with Ridley. By the way is Ridley's gender ever given? ChozoBoy [ADMIN] (Talk/Contribs) 03:29, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I believe Ridley is referred to as "he" on the Pirate lore for Meta-Ridley. But even if he isn't, his persona both in-game and out very much seem to reflect that of a male. User:Tuckerscreator 22:21 10 May 2009
 * He is refered to as male several times, such as "a job he will take to" and such. As for his species, I dunno--his design in Prime is actually quite reminiscent of the Pirates there, albeit with wings and a tail. And the manga has implied several times that he's one of them by more than just affiliation--and after all, both Prime and the manga show that pirates have no qualms whatsoever with completely reconfiguring their bodies. Maybe he is a different species, but there's not enough evidence either way. Dazuro 05:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I've always just been under the impression that he is a heavily mutated space pirate from some experiment that not enough pirates survived for it to be cost effective to do again. Same thing with Kraid.  Metroidhunter32  15:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Kraid strikes me as more Bryyonian than Urtragian-based. Dazuro 17:07, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I always thought of Ridley as a separate species but being amutated Pirate is a possibility I hadn't considered. Above this section, I had given my hypothesis over Ridley being a Zebesian but, so far, no one has responded. User:Tuckerscreator 12:19 11 May 2009


 * While it is possible that Ridley was a mutated Space Pirate, the fact that he was also referred to as "Geoform 187" implies that Ridley is not, speciesially, a Space Pirate. He is a space pirate in terms of affiliation, however.

Zero Mission artwork
Since Zero Mission currently has the most up-to-date artwork of Ridley, shouldn't we use that for the main image rather than the Super Metroid artwork? Looking around the gallery, it doesn't look like it's been uploaded, but I can upload it if need be. -PeanutLord 22:49, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't Brawl's be the most recent, not to mention probably the best picture in general? Doesn't seem like we automatically go with 'most recent' like most wikis either. Though either way, if the ZM one isn't uploaded we need it for the gallery, so please do so. Any chance you have the other ZM artworks as well? I've never seen most of them outside of the Brawl stickers--no sites seem to have the stuff. We have a few minibosses and such on the wiki, but AFAIK we have no Ridley, no Kraid, no ZSS, no gunship... Dazuro 23:10, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, I was more referring to his artwork in actual Metroid games...I dunno, it just makes more sense to me since that's the most up-to-date canonical version of his design (not including the Prime games, since they're Meta and Omega instead of just normal Ridley, or Other M, since we don't have any official artwork for it yet). I have most of the Zero Mission artwork, though, so I'll get to uploading that anyway. -PeanutLord 02:24, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Ridley: Name of the being or the species?
I typically thought that Ridley was his name, but upon reading the details of meta ridley that came from the Nintendo site, which begins with "Meta Ridley is a genetically enhanced Ridley metaform...". The line seems to imply that the species is named Ridley. Any thoughts on this? Dark Ridley 19:52, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * That line never struck me as contradictory to the fact that Ridley is the name of the individual. By which he is referred to on multiple occasions anyway. Besides I wouldn't take much of what that site says as canon, if it even exists anymore. It used a horribly outdated image of Metroid Prime. Uncouth! SteveZombie 01:43, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Ridley, according to a metroid prime log, is a code name for geoform 187. SA-X96 02:40, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Article Pic
Um, there's nothing wrong with the first infobox pic, but, can we please use something with a little more...awesomeness? -- Deku tulla  ZM  21:40, September 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * Nominations? ChozoBoy [ADMIN] (Talk/Contribs) 06:57, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

-- Deku tulla  ZM  19:15, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Won. ChozoBoy [ADMIN] (Talk/Contribs) 21:04, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Ex-Ridley?
Is it saft to say that ridey is dead, by the end of Fusion? I mean, ofcourse he'll appear in all the games before Fusion, and it won't really matter as long as no other game is released after fusion, but is he deceased? Assuming the frozen corpse is in fact ridley, obviously. The Rid-cicle collapsed, looking quite dead. (By the way, Ex-Ridley is a refrence to the Norwiegian blue parrot from Monty Python.) DoomZero 15:41, October 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * We can't assume he is. If (and only if) there are no more chronological sequels to Fusion, then we can say that. Queen  Sa  mus  18:37, October 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * They couldn't possibly have killled Samus's nemesis. She has to kill him. Still, they have to explain that in a later game.

Like the one coming out next year that takes place in that time period and has Ridley in it, in at least two parts of the game? ChozoBoy [ADMIN] (Talk/Contribs) 03:51, October 5, 2009 (UTC) Woah, close call there. If you had even mentioned the acronym of the game's title, this place would have huge amounts of messages. And anyways, that game takes place before Fusion. DoomZero 03:55, October 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I actually meant a game that takes place after Fusion. They should make one, along with another one after Corruption.


 * Speaking of after Fusion... What happens to Samus's suit? Like, is she stuck with the Fusion suit forever, now that the Chozo are nowhere to be seen, and the scientists pretty much destroyed her power suit? DoomZero 21:58, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Remember how the Federation created data that mimicked her previous abilities perfectly? They could do the same thing with her Power Suit, but we're getting off subject. This should be about Ridley, not Samus' Suit. The Exterminator 22:52, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Hmm... Yeah, you're right... But I don't have anything left to talk about... DoomZero 00:08, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

I heard something once(maybe wikitroid)that the Manga states that Ridley is like Dark Samus and can survive being completely disintergrated because his dead cell/particles spread into the air and feed off other energy and he forms back together.General Q-Nek 01:27, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Close. He actually eats other organisms, with his mouth, to restore his lost body parts. Supposedly this is how he became Ridley again after the Prime series, all those mechanical parts helped in "rebuilding" his organic form. The Exterminator 01:30, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Development Room
Where'd these pictures come from? I've seen them on both the Ridley, Kraid, and Chozo pages. What are they? -- Deku tulla  ZM  17:57, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Concept art from Zero Mission. Don't ask how you get it, I'm still waiting for the dang game to come in. The  Ex terminator  18:17, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

INVINCIBLE (not the Michael Jackson song)
Ridley can absorb 'life energy' from other beings or at least regenerate. He never really dies truly, which is weird. Haha maybe he has Metroid DNA?

TantrumDog 02:30, December 2, 2009 (UTC) TantrumDog


 * As I recall he reveals he consumes dead bodies or cells in some fashion. Many have taken this as meaning he outright eats them but looking at that little accident he was involved in at K-2L, I kinda doubt he was in any condition to do so. SteveZombie 22:50, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Undead much? Maybe he absorbs their matter and makes/rebuilts himself. TantrumDog 04:06, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Remember how he's referred to as a geoform, not bioform? This makes me think that Ridley might not be a normal creature and may not be carbon-based, explaining why he's such an abnormality of biology.Einsteinium99 02:47, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

Citiation
I'll post a youtube video of all the ridley remixes... I'm starting it now (Metroid101 18:16, February 14, 2010 (UTC))

Metroid manga
If you zoom up on a small pic of Ridley before he tells Samus that he is going to kill her, it kind of looks like he's sorry to kill innocents. Anyone knows why? Brianb014 07:09, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Well, he goes around killing people and animals, then to have a child come to him fearless and trying to make friends. I guess he didnt have the heart to kill a kid standing up to him. Thats why he hesatated, saying "We dont have time for little girls." or something like that. Then when Virginia comes over he blasts her because she was scared. Hard to explain. (Metroid.pie 20:42, June 26, 2010 (UTC))

Maybe it was just a "Sarcastic" look? He does have a morbid sense of humor. Marx Wraith 03:07, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Metroid101
"CHILL OUT!"? I did not get angry at you. -- R o y b o y X {ADMIN} 23:00, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't get angry at you either, I was just using CAPS to replace italics. Metroid101 23:04, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

M101, in my opinion we ought to allow the category's inclusion. ChozoBoy [ADMIN] (Talk/Contribs) 23:17, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Ridley Speaks
In the E-Manga, it shows that Ridley is obviously able to speak. In the games, however, he cant or just dosent. Though the E-manga isnt true with nintendo directly, do you think he will talk in Other M, with the addition of full voice acting. I'd be cool if he did, i'd flip out, but if he didnt then I guess its not true. Any thoughts on this? (Metroid.pie 13:52, June 25, 2010 (UTC))


 * Well he did "die" many times, that could possibly effect someones speech capabilities. And also this is a talk page, it is for discussing about the article its self and not the subject. If you are going to post something like this again, you should got to the Watercooler< Our forums. Metroid101 13:59, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, well, um. Yeah, ok... What? (Metroid.pie 16:00, June 25, 2010 (UTC))
 * Oh, well, um. Yeah, ok... What? (Metroid.pie 16:00, June 25, 2010 (UTC))

Let's not go there...
I've removed the words "Like a wyvern" from the end of the second to last entry in the Trivia section. The reason being that the appearance of wyverns in itself is very much open for debate, and by that I mean there are a lot of different depictions of wyverns. Anyone remember the old Fox Kids show "Mystic Knights of Tir na Nog"? It featured some creatures called "wyverns" that were nothing more than torsos with wings, a head, and a tail that lobbed energy balls forward. Some depictions of wyverns feature two wings, two legs, and two stubby little T-Rex arms. Hell, whoever wrote that entry might as well have said "like a drake" or "like a male dragon" (I'm reasonably certain that it's universally agreed that all female western dragons have two wings, and and are quadrapedal). 75.107.0.38 06:41, June 26, 2010 (UTC) predcon


 * For one thing, I appreciate your edit because A) Wyverns aren't real (or so we think) and B) We don't know what they look like. But I concur with this statement "I'm reasonably certain that it's universally agreed that all female western dragons have two wings, and and are quadrapedal" ...  Dragon's aren't real or have not had evidence of their existence  ... Also, what you described as a "male" wyvern, is exactly what Ridley looked like in the original Metroid -_- And don't use the terms Male and Female when you're describing things that you act they are real but really that aren't or haven't yet been discovered by modern public xD Metroid101 04:05, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Species revisited
So, I was rereading the manga, and at one point he, Gray and Mother get into a big argument over the nature of his species, lumping him together with the space pirates. "Are you stopping this humanoid charade? After all, this is your people's true nature. You've stolen from every race imaginable. In the end... beasts indulging in your own petty desires." "Beasts? We are..." Clearly, he's being counted as one of the pirates' race, shuzoku, whatever you want to call it. Now, add to this that he was called the original Zebesian, a term which now refers to the pirates. Beyond that, have a look at Ridley's model in Metroid Prime. His chest and limbs are nearly identical in structure and texture (under the armor) as the standard space pirates found in the game. We know the pirates are big on genetic modification and bioengineering, we know they have no qualms changing around their own race's builds and appearances (see the Body Acclimation Machine or whatever it's called)... He looks just like a pirate with wings, a tail and a different head on a long neck. He is referred to and refers to himself as one of their own. And he shares his title with the race's nickname. Is it really that much of a stretch? Also keep in mind that some of the mutated pirates in the manga demonstrate long beaks with reptillian heads... I don't know if it's solid enough to mention in the article as anything more than a trivia if that, but it's worth thinking about. Dazuro 03:46, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Upon further reading, Mother Brain explicitly says "this worthless species" while looking at Ridley, refers to his "puny race," then goes on to say she will "cradle the space pirates to sleep." Yeah, sounds like confirmation of his race to me. <_< Dazuro 04:22, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure we can rule him out being a direct species of Space Pirate now that we know that he starts out as a furry little white thing with a nasty appetite for anything that moves. Marx Wraith 22:01, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. Unless of course that's what all baby pirates look like, or then there's that crazy theory on Ridley's page about Ridley's DNA being mixed with the bunny's causing them to evolve from each other... Dazuro 22:11, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

uhhh....wow,behold the terror of the galaxy! The ravenous space bunnies! Marx Wraith 23:39, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ridley's nature is mysterious, but I don't think he IS a space pirate (in biological terms), but definitly IS a space pirate. What I mean is, his case is similar to being adopted. Though I'm not saying that the pirates went down to the local space dragon shelter. 66.50.175.139 03:20, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ridley in Other M
Other M reveals a lot about how Ridley works as a species (and it doesn't seem to be very Space Pirate-y) so I figured I just mention this so you guys don't forget to add that.

78.50.30.239 02:39, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

So Ridley seriously starts out a tiny fuzzy thing....creepy.Marx Wraith 03:05, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

I find it ironic and fitting. A fuzzy bird thing is WAY scarier than a baby dragon, suprisingly.

What i don't like his final "classic" form in Other M. They messed up his head and gave him steroids. Land Shark7896 20:13, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

He does look more like a crocodile with that mouth like it is and I was surprised to see how ridiculously muscular he got...mayhap they did pump something into him when he was "Little Birdie", apparently the Space Pirates are smarter when it comes to there being a rule against keeping test subjects as "pets". Little creepy furry gremlin bird-thing,brrrrrrrr! Marx Wraith 21:02, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect Characterization.
''Early in the game Samus also meets "Little Birdie" but doesn't see it as a threat, so she leaves it alone. Later, she find it eating Kihunter nectar as it roars at her and finds the creature "disgusting" as it relied on the power of others (specifically it used her to kill the Kihunter nest).''

Nothing suggest that Samus found the "young Ridley" disgusting because it had to rely on the power of others.


 * Isn't that what she said? Also, its funny that she says that because Little Birdie is "pirating" off of her kill at a young age. It feigning death is also a technique that Ridley's used. ChozoBoy (Talk/Contribs) 23:49, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Ridley at the end of Other M
At the end of Other M, after going back to re-explore, if you go to where his corpse was, it is no longer there. that should be in the article. something like: "when samus goes back to the bottle ship, she also notices ridley's corpse is gone" or something like that. (yeah, it sounds awful, but I know somebody else will have a better version)--SGP 01:36, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

The GF's stench is all over this one to be sure.....two words .....Metroid......Fusion.Marx Wraith 03:04, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Intelligence
Would you stop going around implying anyone who disagrees with you is a moron? There is nothing "derp derp" about assuming they did something well within the bounds of scifi. It's been hinted that Ridley may have been cloned before like this by the various times his body flat-out disintegrated, and he CLEARLY has a specific vendetta against Samus, ignoring the 07th Platoon and staring her down roaring at her while she was clearly under duress, while he just instantly attacked/killed anyone else he fought. And she specifically refers to him as her long-standing nemesis. It just wouldn't have the same impact if he had a new brain. The fact is, Ridley's been killed and revived before, and he obviously kept his memories. There's absolutely no evidence besides "science says so" that it isn't the case here, and Metroid defies science all the damn time. We already said maybe, so there's no reason to remove it. If we flatout said "he remembers Samus and thus attacks her" you'd have a point. What we're doing is presenting both sides of the argument and letting the reader decide.

Tl;dr: Stop forcing your opinions on the article. Present both sides evenly, which is what we were doing until you inserted yourself in as appointed guardian of magical fictional cloning science. Dazuro 02:59, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not calling you an idiot. I just don't think Ridley has dabbled in the dark arts of magic. Extraxi 03:06, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, you think cloning is fictional?

When did I say that? I said the Feds have access to scifi technology on top of their cloning. They upload deceased military personnel to computers and remake them as AI, after all. And wouldn't a real clone require a parent? They produced him out of thin air, so clearly their cloning > ours, unless they have a few spare Ridlettas hanging around. Dazuro 03:13, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * That has an astounding amount of nothing to do with cloning.


 * And no, they wouldn't, not when you can grow a uterus independant of a body (which, by the way, is around where we're up to in cloning). Would you prefer it if I didn't condescend and explained exactly how memories work? Extraxi 03:17, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * .....No clue just no darn clue it DOES seem strange for Ridley to immediately have the gumption to tackle Samus to the ground and ignore everybody else if he didn't remember her. Oh and I honestly think Ridley has been cloned only in this game to be honest for a few simple facts;
 * One: In Metroid Prime it is stated that he survived the first battle with Samus at;eats long enough to be equipped with a half-cyborg body,therefore the battle at the end of the game would really only be the second battle samus ever fought with him.
 * Two; It is quite obvious he survived falling into the crater at the end of the battle but due to his wounds he would not make a comeback until Metroid Prime 3.
 * Three: He is NOT listed as being killed in leviathan battle
 * Four: Samus states herself that he was finished for good in Super Metroid and I'm pretty sure that Samus is sure of this as a fact considering his tenacity to always come back. Therefore after Super Metroid he could only come back as a clone because he Died for good on Zebes.Marx Wraith 03:26, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Four: Samus states herself that he was finished for good in Super Metroid and I'm pretty sure that Samus is sure of this as a fact considering his tenacity to always come back. Therefore after Super Metroid he could only come back as a clone because he Died for good on Zebes.Marx Wraith 03:26, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I believe Max Wraith has won the internet here. I originally thought he was just cloned after MP3, but I suppose he survived also, perhaps the Phazon disappearing cause him to revert to his original self? Who knows. Either way, so if this was the first time he was cloned, I believe people who say there's a supernatural element to this. If one is clone to a baby, one is supposed to not have memories, unless this was more than just simple cloning. I'm not gonna put assumptions here, but hatred is a strong factor for death to avoid and the hatred between him and Samus is bigger than life, so why should it be bound by mortality? --66.50.175.139 03:35, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * It was definitely basic cloning, since they didn't even know it was Ridley. Even if they did, I don't think they'd want him to remember who he used to be. But the whole attacking Samus thing is just like the SA-X. It perceived a greater threat, and attacked the Omega Metroid. Which is why it only implies intelligence and cunning, not memory. Extraxi 04:44, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that supernatural elements are no strangers to Metroid. Covens, Phantoon, Chozo Ghosts, Luminoth, Brryonians -- magic and reincarnation and spells and telepathy... It's not remotely unbelievable for Ridley to retain his memories. Dazuro 05:56, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

My point exactly, though I suppose in the end that's just maybe an advanced form of science, who knows. That's why I respectively disagree with you Ex, in my opinion Ridley's showboating in this game was too personal with Samus for him to have a blank state in mind when he was cloned. 66.50.175.139 06:01, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uh... Everything you said but reincarnation, magic, and spells don't ever happen in Metroid. The rest is not remotely related to magic. So unless you show proof he actually remembers Samus, and not that he's just a smart hunter (which is the only proof given that he remembers Samus which is already debunked, as well as him torturing Samus because he was already sadistic), then it should stay how it is. Extraxi 06:09, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the cloned Ridley actually remembers Samus. A cloned Baby Infant Metroid tried to ATTACK her, yet the original Baby was INHOSTILE. Unless the Fed's tampering made their minds mushy then... Shadowblade777 06:12, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd like to add to Shadow's point (because he made me realize this), that if the cloning method brought back memories (through its magic missile powers even though the GF had no actual memory data to implant), then the uprising would have happened long before Ridley was even cloned, as the Zebesians would be like 'What? You want us to be your weapons? No. We're going to kill you now. Have a nice day.' Extraxi 06:15, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Like I said, I believe Ridley's hate for Samus extends far beyond life itself. Also the way you describe the metaphysical and supernatural, Ex, is not what we're talking about here. I personally believe Ridley remembers Samus --66.50.175.139 06:24, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Look, the fact is, we do not know 100% whether he remembers or if he's just a smart hunter. Both sides have their supporters. You can't just go around undoing any edit that disagrees with your personal theory. We don't know which it is for sure, so we have to present both possibilities. Get over your ego trip. Also, as far as the infant goes, even the original infant didn't recognize Samus at first. It attacked her until she was nearly dead. Dazuro 06:25, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Let me put it this way... On Wikipedia, under Evolution, do people allow theories involving magic to be posted? Or how about under cloning, do people post things like 'but clones, through sheer force of will, remember things that never happened in their lives, but in the people they're cloned of life (using magic missile)'? Same applies here; logic before magic. Extraxi 06:35, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Nay, Ridley doesn't remember Samus. What he did was all instincts. Clone Ridley doesn't have his original memories, but he has his instincts for sure and they're telling him to kill Samus or anyone who gets in his way. Dr.Pancake 06:31, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

This is a fucking scifi game, Extraxi. And this is not Wikipedia. And if there were legitimately theories of magically-inspired evolution, they would be covered in a subsection. Dazuro 06:42, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, good, you now think it's scifi instead of Dungeons and Dragons. Perfect. I guess we're all done with this silly puff the magic dragon argument. Extraxi 06:44, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

What the hell are you even talking about? This series has always had magical elements in it. Dazuro 06:47, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * wat Extraxi 06:51, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

I just don't get why you're so opposed to showing a balanced view of both sides of an argument where clearly both sides have their supporters. Why do we have to follow you? Can you just fucking let us give fair and equal treatment to both arguments? Science doesn't matter in a scifi/fantasy game. Your argument has no more credence than ours does. None whatsoever. Dazuro 06:54, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Again. There is no argument without evidence. I have evidence, and I know something about predatorial behaviors, where it has become evident that you do not. Why are you so opposed to giving us evidence that he does remember her? Why do we have to have theories without any evidence? Extraxi 06:57, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

You have no evidence besides "real-life science says so," and real-life science has no bearing here. Our evidence is actually drawn from the game cutscenes. Either way, there's no real in-game conclusive evidence either way. I'm sure eventually Nintendo will come out and say one or the other, but as of right now, there is absolutely 100% no conclusive evidence in the game toward your theory or ours. So either put them both, or mention nothing about it at all. That is how we do it here. Dazuro 07:01, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh wow. You just proved why NOT to post the other puff the magic dragon theory while calling evidence for predatorial behavior to be magic remembering. Good show. If you want to whine more about it in IRC, I'm done here. I wouldn't want you embaressing yourself anymore. Extraxi 07:07, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Would you grow the fuck up and knock off the insults already? It certainly doesn't help your point. We don't CARE what real-life theories and biology say. This is a wiki for a videogame. We go by what the games tell us. Samus contradicts the law of conservation of mass all the time and we just accept that. Your evidence is completely irrelevant here. According to in-game material, it's possible that he remembers her. It's also possible he does not. We either SAY both are possible, or we say nothing at all about it. Dazuro 07:11, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Your 'according to in-game material' demonstrates predatorial instincts first, and 'remembers samus' later, by the way. Unless you get evidence that explicitly points out that Ridley has somehow retained memories, then it's predator first, crackpot second.


 * Oh, and conservation of mass isn't cloning. You never gave evidence of 'magic throughout metroid' still, and you STILL haven't given evidence of Ridley remembering Samus. Are you really just arguing that if you can't have your way, no one can have any way? Extraxi 07:40, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Magic: Luminoth. Covens. Mother Brain. Phantoon. Chozo Ghosts. Reptilicus. Evidence of remembrance: What's the point? I'm sure you have another scientific predation theory drawn from external sources that don't fucking matter in Metroid'. When did I say anything to the effect of your last sentence? "Tantrum"? Seriously? What the hell is the matter with you? I'm trying to make sure BOTH sides get their way, and apparently that means I'm throwing a tantrum and not letting you have your way? Boo hoo, you don't get to force your opinion on us. Get over it. We provide both sides and let the readers decide, or we provide neither side at all. That is how this wiki works. If you don't like it, you're more than welcome to stop editing. Pretending like my evidence is invalid does not mean I gave no evidence. I don't know why you have such a problem with letting other people have their opinions, but I suggest you stop before an admin makes you stop. I've had the same problem for a long time. Dazuro 08:04, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Lol... Your list of magic curiously lacks magic. Just ghosts and telekenisis, both of which aren't directly related to magic... Interesting. I believe you are confusing yourself, and now trying to prove that there is no magic in Metroid, although you are the one arguing it...


 * But I digress. I think your behavior has been deplorable. You have no excuse for personally attacking other editors, even if you think they are in the wrong. You are required to explain your reasoning if asked to, which you have yet to do. You have given no evidence of how Ridley remembers Samus. Keep that in mind. Extraxi 08:13, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

The Bryyonians are explicitly said to use magic. And you've been attacking me a hell of a lot more reliably. And actually, I reverted an edit. Therefore, the burden of proof is on you, as the one who initiated the edit. And all of the evidence you've submitted thus far is real-life science, unrelated to Metroid. I did in fact give reason to believe Ridley remembers Samus, but again, you conveniently ignore that. Ignorance of evidence is not absence of evidence. Keep THAT in mind. Deplorable behavior indeed. At least I'm following protocol instead of forcing my opinion on other people. I'm trying to keep things open-minded and open-ended. You're being fascist and twisting facts and words. Which is truly more deplorable? Dazuro 08:17, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey, you said something that does use magic! I didn't read the rest, though... I'm hoping your next post will have evidence of the other thing you're arguing now. Like, at the beginning. Extraxi 08:24, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Are you going out of your way to be as difficult and infuriating to deal with as possible? I gave you your goddamned evidence several posts ago. Ignoring them does not make them go away. Or did you doctor another talkpage to get rid of what I said and change my wording? I wouldn't put it past you at this rate. Dazuro 08:25, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wait, no... Says you never see Bryyonians perform magic... Could just be plain alchemy like the zombie powder around in Africa... Oh well. Got my hopes all up and about for nothing... Extraxi 08:28, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Italics caught my eye! Wait, do you mean the evidence that was debunked as possibly memories before you even brought them up a while back? Extraxi 08:29, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Nothing was debunked. Whatever. You clearly have no interest in actually doing anything productive besides enforcing your One True Opinion onto Ridley's page, and I have better things to do than throw evidence at a brick wall. Come tomorrow when more editors are online, we can correct Ridley's page as per policy, and go about our merry days. Psst, weren't you going to leave this issue be a while ago? Couldn't resist the urge to argue more, could you? Figures. Dazuro 08:30, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * You mean the debunked thing isn't debunked even though it's debunked and currently debunked by being debunked in a debunking manner yet is still somehow debunked? O: Extraxi 08:36, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Grow up. Dazuro 08:36, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm still waiting for you to. Why do you think I stopped arguing? Extraxi 08:40, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Look at the bright side, guy. Once you explain why the Zebesians didn't remember anything, but Ridley did, this Ridley has memories theory will have some credability. Extraxi 08:51, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I feel like, that this "fight" was made for me :D Okay, Ridley IMO doesn't have his memories in Other M because, he would have killed her right away ... plus, Clones can't just get their memories back right away :P plus, evidence in the metroid series shows having to implant memories, not gain them by itself. Metroid101 11:49, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

I think the lot of you need to read WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA before you both get blocked. As for my opinion on the matter, it's simply this: Magic is often the explanation for events that cannot otherwise be explained, historically due to lack of understanding for what was actually involved. This does not of course mean that said events were caused by magic; it just makes a convenient explanation. -- FastLizard4 {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) - Would you like to participate in the new forum trials? 12:45, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

I've been trying, but look at this! He's being ridiculously difficult. All I'm trying to do is keep things open-ended instead of forcing one person's opinion as the only one we represent. In any case, I'd also like to point out something I just realized--do we even know for sure 100% he was cloned? Ridley's been seen to regenerate himself from near-destruction before by eating things. We assumed that meant that a near-dead dragon-Ridley crawled around eating corpses, but that was never confirmed. Isn't it possible that his cells recreated themselves autonomously? Which just brings up another point, even if he was cloned, his cell structure is obviously unique in that he CAN do that, so his clone might not be treated the same as a metroid's. But either way, Extraxi, I would also like to point out this: the games never actually say that Metroid Prime and Dark Samus share an intellect. I've fought long and hard to keep theories based on that out. But despite that, we still have representation on the trivia sections of that theory, saying things like "Dark Samus may have released metroids because she was once a metroid." It's a bit annoying, but I came to terms with it. You need to bite the bullet here and do the same. Dazuro

Ok let us put it this way,maybe Ridley just likes SHINY stuff like any bird would. lol Marx Wraith 20:30, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

The part that bothers everyone seems to be the one where Adolescent Ridley tackles Samus, so what if he was just as ready to do the same to the GF troops, but Samus got in the way. I found it odd that they would just stop fighting just so they can "wait" for Samus to appear. Dr.Pancake 20:41, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Daz, Daz, Daz... I'm not being difficult. I've laid out detailed explanations as to how and why Ridley doesn't and can't remember Samus, involving general data storage of memories and the inconsistencies that would ultimately fill the game with plotholes if he did remember her, but no one else remembered anything. Yet you keep saying 'No that evidence is magic!' So I'll ask you again (since I already had fun with the trolling thing), go on and give evidence as to why:


 * the Zebesians don't remember anything, but Ridley does


 * how the Galactic Federation implanted Ridley's memories into Ridley if they did not have his memories or knew he was Ridley


 * ing magnets, how do they work?


 * the aforementioned evidence is instead displays of memory, instead of just predatorial prowess
 * Go on. Even make a fancy new section for it. I did for mine. It's very fancy. I welcome your evidence towards these three (four?) things, instead of saying 'no my theory should be up too because miracles.'


 * Wait, wait, hold on. We're all 100% sure he was cloned because they admit they accidentally cloned him since they were just playing Genetic Pinata with the gunk on Samus' armor, but now you're not sure? Okay. Uh... Alright. I can ignore this. Just.. Sigh. Extraxi 21:06, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh God, I should've read your entire post. "Treated just like a Metroid" when they say Little Birdie was treated like a pet? Dude, stop trolling before you get yourself suspended. Extraxi 21:09, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

How do you know the Zebesians don't remember anything? They never talk. And the Feds don't have to implant memories; as I said, he's demonstrated the ability to rebuild himself and keep his memories intact. And as far as I know, they never said they cloned him, only that they didn't realize the creature was Ridley and that it had no potential as a bioweapon. And I'm hardly the one trolling. I'm just pissed that you won't allow us to show any opinions that disagree with your own. Knock it off. Dazuro 21:58, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Look, either quit trolling and get serious or just stop. You know if the Zebesians remembered anything, there would be an uprising long before MB went crazy. You know there is never any evidence that he somehow has the ability to regain memories he never had. And as far as you know, they did clone them. You're just trying to agitate an argument for nothing, made obvious because you've yet to lay out any evidence for any of these. Enough of your trolling, man. Extraxi 22:03, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Would you seriously shut the hell up about this trolling bullshit already? I am not the one mocking you ceaselessly and provoking arguments and ignoring evidence. You're being a textbook troll right now, and projecting it onto me is NOT helping your case. Dazuro 22:09, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm being a troll? Here, let me show you something I said earlier.


 * Daz, Daz, Daz... I'm not being difficult. I've laid out detailed explanations as to how and why Ridley doesn't and can't remember Samus, involving general data storage of memories and the inconsistencies that would ultimately fill the game with plotholes if he did remember her, but no one else remembered anything. Yet you keep saying 'No that evidence is magic!' So I'll ask you again (since I already had fun with the trolling thing), go on and give evidence as to why:


 * the Zebesians don't remember anything, but Ridley does


 * how the Galactic Federation implanted Ridley's memories into Ridley if they did not have his memories or knew he was Ridley


 * ing magnets, how do they work?


 * the aforementioned evidence is instead displays of memory, instead of just predatorial prowess
 * Go on. Even make a fancy new section for it. I did for mine. It's very fancy. I welcome your evidence towards these three (four?) things, instead of saying 'no my theory should be up too because miracles.'
 * And no one has seen anything laid out yet, I'm sure. You've been given plenty of chances to simply write out all of your evidence in a clear, and concise manner instead of just saying 'no put my theory up.' In fact, you can't run out of chances until you get suspended for trolling. You could have laid out a full diagram by now of all the evidence you "have" but instead argue nothing with nothing! So I'm done. No more feeding Daz the Troll. I have a full explanation as to why he doesn't remember, and you don't. Trying to magic your theory in would count as vandalism, troll. Extraxi 22:18, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * (message somehow got deleted) i have to agree with extraxi here. i suggest daz scroll up and see what he wrote out. i believe he wants you to do something like this, since what your saying doesnt seem to have structure, and it doesnt seem to tackle anything like inconsistencies 68.169.40.21 00:31, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * (message somehow got deleted) i have to agree with extraxi here. i suggest daz scroll up and see what he wrote out. i believe he wants you to do something like this, since what your saying doesnt seem to have structure, and it doesnt seem to tackle anything like inconsistencies 68.169.40.21 00:31, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * (message somehow got deleted) i have to agree with extraxi here. i suggest daz scroll up and see what he wrote out. i believe he wants you to do something like this, since what your saying doesnt seem to have structure, and it doesnt seem to tackle anything like inconsistencies 68.169.40.21 00:31, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Magic
I simply want to specify the existance of magic in Metroid CLEARLY (since Extraxi seemingly ignores it): the last few Mogenars built by the last Science Lord is made of both Magic/dark arts and technology (something along those lines, see the log book on Bryyo history). The boss you face in leviathan on Bryyo is one of these special Mogenars, and it DOES perform magical powers, such as making extended hands surrounded by floating runic symbols. Other things mentioned in Bryyo history is the old tribes using their magic during the war against the technology used by the science lords. And just the presence of Ghosts within the Metroid series, especially how the Chozo ghosts lived within their respective temple artifacts in Metroid Prime 1, ultimately proves the existance of supernatural/magical elements in Metroid. I, for one, back the possibility of Ridley having memories of Samus. A mention of this in the article DOES NOT HURT ANYONE, just as how the Metroid Prime creature article mentions ALL possible explanations behind its origins. (24.201.170.219 22:23, September 7, 2010 (UTC)).


 * To be fair, I haven't been ignoring it. (I never played Prime 3.) Some troll kept trying to say there was magic without giving direct reference to something specifically consisting of magic in any Metroid game to prove there WAS magic, but then you came along. But supernatural and magic still aren't connected. Extraxi 22:27, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Disagreeing with you does not make me a troll. Get over your goddamned ego already. And what the hell are you talking about? Magic is supernatural. As are ghosts. It's all in the same boat. Dazuro 22:30, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Youre just splitting hairs Extraxi, they both dwell in the supernatural. (24.201.170.219 22:34, September 7, 2010 (UTC))

Yes, but if he admitted that he'd have to stop calling me a troll/vandal for five seconds, and that's clearly too much to ask from him. Dazuro 22:37, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Quit trolling, Daz, and whine about how you haven't given out any evidence for your theory in the other section. This is a discussion of magic in the Magic section, as you can see. Once you get some evidence, you can put it there, not here (unless you think Ridley's magical now).


 * Anyway, back to the discussion at hand. I still believe they're seperate, either way. No real way to prove they're connected, and I feel like this would devolve into 'no the first Ghostbusters was better.' So... Do these Mogenars demonstrate magic of some kind in front of the player, or is it just stated in the scan? Extraxi 22:41, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Mogenar boss is essentially made out of stone instead of machinery like the other Mogenars seen elsewhere on Bryyo; this already starts suggesting the creature is magical. Like i mentioned before, this boss performs magic in the form of an attack which he creates see-through hands that extend from his and are surrounded by floating runic symbols resembling encantations. The inhabitants of Bryyo, such as Reptilicus, are seemingly able to form whips out of thin air, and may be part of their magical traditions, but it cant be said for sure for this particular attack. The last lord of science met, if im not mistaken, a witch that could see into the future, just as how Chozo were able to. I would also like to drawn your attention to Thardus, a boss from Metroid Prime made out of stone; though it was given life with Phazon, it still is nonetheless a supernatural creature. Dark Samus herself seems to create ghostlike copies of herself within each Bounty Hunter in Prime 3. All of these are supernatural elements.
 * One last thing i'd like to add, if you take a look at the Metroid Prime creature's article, the page mentions all possible theories behind its creation, whether they have plotholes or not. If that article can have that, then i dont see why cant the Ridley article mention the possibility of it retaining memories of Samus in Other M. (24.201.170.219 22:57, September 7, 2010 (UTC))
 * If Ridley can keep his memory at even a genetic level then he truly is a freak abomination of nature. That's saying something considering he would already be the very definition of a freak of nature for all the times he's cheated death. Heck, the X probably wasn't even the end of him for all we know! Marx Wraith 04:48, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * well, the x are said to absorb memories... come to think of it, the scientist guy with the wide beam in fusion could have been trying to destroy the station along with himself, and wasn't aware he was an x copy until he had to defend himself or something. except ridley-x would only remember the time on the bottle ship... 68.169.40.21 04:55, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * well, the x are said to absorb memories... come to think of it, the scientist guy with the wide beam in fusion could have been trying to destroy the station along with himself, and wasn't aware he was an x copy until he had to defend himself or something. except ridley-x would only remember the time on the bottle ship... 68.169.40.21 04:55, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

That could actually be an interesting plot twist IMO, if he didn't retain his memories. The X absorb the pirates and Ridley so they can have their intellect and power, but these versions are separated from the "hive" and are completely feral... and they end up just getting some mindless beasts. I can just picture the Dr. Claw-esque "CUUUURSES!" as the X realize they got a useless Ridley. <_< Dazuro 04:59, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Please Don't Feed The Troll
Why is it so hard for you to remain civil? Is it really so much to ask that you not insult and mock me with every post you make? God, you are infuriating. In any case. They conjure magical glowing green hands out of their physical hands and send them around to telephatically pick things up and attack. That magical enough for you? Beyond that the Bryyonians themselves were divided into the Lords of Science and the Lords of Magic, the implications of which should be clear enough. Dazuro 22:43, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm being civil. I'm sitting here, discussing magic with Numbers, yet you want to drag me back into your argument, in which I still wait for your evidence. Until then, I'll keep only reading the first line of each post, waiting for "Here, I have finally compiled the evidence." Extraxi 22:50, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Selective reading. A hallmark of a master troll. Also, stop reverting my edits. We wouldn't want to violate 3RR, now, would we? And again, stop calling me a troll/vandal just because I disagree with your opinion. That is not civility. Dazuro 22:52, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm undoing trolling and vandalism, because you are making edits with no supporting evidence. I've told you many times to lay out your evidence, but the fact you've yet to proves that you are a troll. Now keep it clean and civil, and finally do it if you're not a troll. (If this message is not followed by laid out evidence of memories as well as working around inconsistencies, it will be direct proof that you are a troll.) Extraxi 22:56, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Grrr. People, people, PLEASE, let's stop acting like two-year olds and discuss this rationally for a moment! I know that although Daruzo and Extraxi both sometimes comes off as a little blunt, in my experiance both are serious and contributing members of the community and not a troll. Both of you (all three of you?) need to step back for a moment and close off a few intellectual rabbit holes you've wandered down. I don't know if there are supernatural elements in Metroid, and at the moment I don't care because it is irrelevant to this discussion. Ridley may or may not remember who he was- the events of the game are far too ambiguous to say for sure. But it is scientifically possible, and I'll show you how:


 * You're all assuming that Ridley forms memories in the same way Humans and other terrestrial life forms do, by means of proteins stored in the hippocampus region of the brain. But what if his memories are actually stored in his DNA? It is an information-carrying medium, after all... cells produce new DNA every time they divide, and I see no theoretical reason why they couldn't add on encoded memories while doing so, then read them off later. Sure, it wouldn't replace the regular way of doing it, because DNA splitting and transcription is far too slow to let you access, say, where you parked your car, but if Ridley's nerve cells somehow transferred long-term memories and knowledge to some sort of '"messenger" cells that transcribed them into DNA and carried that DNA to cells throughout his body to be included in their copy of his genome, and could then pull those memories out of the DNA at a later date and return them to the brain's conventional storage system, it couldvery well work. It's a complex process, but so are cellular respiration, thought, vision, and all the hundreds of other things that organic life does on a dialy basis. Now, that ability could either have been genetically engineered into Ridley, or it could have evolved naturally in his species, because being able to pass down experiance and knowledge directly from parent(s?) to child would represent a huge survival advantage. If the GF got ahold of Ridley's DNA and cloned him, that clone would then be able to unpack the stored memories and then re-integrate them into its own brain, without resorting to supernatural means that may or may not be presant in the games.


 * Thus, he either could or couldn't have his memories intact, depending on the evidence in the game, which in my interperetation is completely ambiguous. So let's all try to calm down and get to some sort of agreement in a civil manner.... otherwise articles are going to start getting locked down, and people are going to start getting privelages revoked.--AdmiralSakai 00:08, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * id question how you see daz as a serious contributor when youre the one who just established the possibility of ridley having memories, even though he seemed to be arguing it for a while now. besides that, it is pretty interesting. it could be the scientists also used a method of cloning that increased the aging process, so that might mean he can remember faster. i don't know much about advanced aging, though 68.169.40.21 00:24, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Very true. I'd also like to point out that in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, the Emperor has multiple clones of his own body and is capable of transferring his essence into the spare bodies after he dies. Yes, that's Star Wars and not Metroid, but they're both scifi universes. The point is, there's precedent for it in star-borne villains. Yes, Star Wars has the Force, but Metroid has telepathy/magic/psychic powers/etc. No reason it can't be the same way. Dazuro 00:13, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Anonymous, I am basing my statement on Daruzo's activity on a wide assortment of other articles I have also contributed to, not specifically on this page, where everybody seems rather irrational. Also, please endeavor to put your statements at the bottom of the page- sections in talk pages are supposed to read in chronological order from top to bottom.--AdmiralSakai 00:33, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

understandable, also, sorry, i mean to reply to you directly 68.169.40.21 00:35, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

We all ought to really stop making up things, and especially must stop adding extraneous things. Let's get this simplified. As far as the Metroid series goes, there is only one Ridley. Next, Ridley was killed and left on planet Zebes along with Mother Brain and the Space Pirates. Samus brings this up. That's why when she sees Ridley, she says, "Ridley?!" The Space Pirates can get away with this because they're collective. Ridley isn't.

Next, Little Birdie is the first form of Ridley. If Ridley is not truly dead, then we have two Ridleys. The first one is Ridley, who is not dead. The second one is Little Birdie, who is metamorphisizing into another Ridley.

As for magic and the supernatural, that's in the Metroid series, but if you pay close attention, this kind of thing is far more prevalent in the Metroid Prime Trilogy. In the original five, you see ghosts and know of telepathic abilities, but not any magic. Remember, Sakamoto was not involved with MPT. For all we know, he's ignoring the trilogy.

The idea of memories being implanted into Ridley's mind is not worth noting because someone, somewhere, would have to have know that Little Birdie was going to become Ridley. And, as it has been said before, clones do not have memories of the true self. Take twins for example. One of them is a natural clone of the other. Being an identical twin myself, if I have a friend my brother has never met, he is not going to know of my friend. Better yet, assume I hate someone my brother does not know about, and my brother befriends this person when he learns of him, our way of perceiving this person is different. Metroid Fan 01:09, September 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * i think it's safe to assume the first ridley exploded with zebes, because itd be impossible to fly off after exploding, and cant really regenerate from being spacedust. the missing ridley at the end of other m explains how he got onto the bsl station. 68.169.40.21 01:30, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Again, there's no need for anyone to have known that Little Birdie would become Ridley. As Sakai stated above, we don't know that Ridley's species is neurologically the same as our creatures. As I mentioned earlier, he apparently has some sort of genetic memory to an extent as he resurrected from near-death at least once before. We do not know whether he resurrected as a fully-fledged dragon, or if this game was their way of showing his eat-to-revive feature firsthand, i.e. there was a Little Birdie running around K-2L until he revived himself. It sounds like wild speculation and I'd agree did his ingame actions not indicate that he does indeed have something against Samus--and when it's a creature with a known ability to stay sentient after apparent death, it's hardly out of the question. We mention the theory that the Berserker Lords are both the same creature. We mention the theory that Dark Samus still remembers being a metroid. Neither of these are explicitly stated ingame, but are merely implied by their actions, appearance, et cetera. This is no different.

I don't want to fill the page with crazy theories. But answer me this: do we know with 100% certainty that he does not remember her? No. Hell no. Maybe it's more likely, but we don't know for sure. As the page stands, it says with no ambiguity that he does not remember her. That can't stand. It has to either say he "may" remember her, or leave the sentence out entirely. There is no other alternative, save Sakamoto himself answering the question. Dazuro 03:23, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

i dont think being cloned counts as regenerating from near-death. i also think it's just a bit unusual anyone in the galactic federation would fly down to zebes while it's blowing up and pick up the rotting corpse of ridley without realizing it suddenly turned into a little bird-thing in its hands... 68.169.40.21 04:49, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, you must not have the game because it is stated about half-way through that Ridley like all the creatures from Zebes,were cloned from the DNA particles they left on her suit when she killed them. Therefore Ridley started out as a baby like all the creatures they cloned,hence him being little birdie without the scientists realizing what he really was.Marx Wraith 04:55, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

i believe extraxi had mentioned that earlier. maybe daz doesn't believe the scientists? 68.169.40.21 05:01, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

They never say Ridley was explicitly cloned. And if he was, why was he still a baby when everything else on the station save the Zeros reached adulthood? Dazuro 05:03, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

they do, and because they treated him as a pet and not as a weapon and didn't try to accelerate his age, probably. or he needed meat to molt. either works. 68.169.40.21 05:08, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

And would you really experiment on your pet man! X( Marx Wraith 05:10, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

When do they say he was cloned? The game never actually says that. It's somewhat implied, but never actually said. Give me the quote and I'll gladly concede. Dazuro 05:12, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Meh,something MB said .....would have to check the cutscene for a reminder......but my Wii is sitting in the living room.....I'm sick in bed......and its 1:15 in Ohio....... Marx Wraith 05:15, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

daz, maybe you should just get other m and play through it... 68.169.40.21 05:22, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Dah? He doesn't even have it,then why in the world would he make such a strong argument about Ridley not being cloned if he doesn't even know ?_?

Where the hell is this idea that I don't have the game coming from? As far as I know I'm the first Metroid Wiki user that got it. I played it before it came out on a review copy FFS, and I've run through the game two more times since release. That doesn't change the fact that MB never actually says he was cloned. She just said they didn't realize that it was Ridley. Dazuro 05:34, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

...Not a clue,but even samus states Ridley died with Zebes and there was never a second Ridley. I think if I am not mistaken the Metroid Queen in the game GREW from a larval metroid,the same one MB became attached to,so how can there be much doubt? Marx Wraith 05:38, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

well if you do have it, maybe you should finish it if you haven't? 68.169.40.21 05:43, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

... I just said I've beaten it three times. Comprehension issues, much? As for what Marx says... 'scuse me? I fail to see how the Queen Metroid is relevant at all here. And as far as Ridley dying, yes, as far as she knew Ridley died. But he was thought to have died on K-2L as well, and he regenerated himself. This sequence was never seen. His regeneration might manifest itself as his remaining cells starting as Little Birdie and gradually growing back up into a proper Ridley. This game takes a lot of things from the manga like that, and it seems to me that if they were going to say he can regenerate by eating things, and then in the next game he eats things to build himself a new body... there just might be a connection there. Dazuro 05:45, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

... huh... well... fourth time's the charm?

also, in my one playthrough, i don't believe anyone makes any mention of a little bird jumping out of the jar of gunk they scraped off samus' armor... 68.169.40.21 05:49, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Ok then Ridley just showed up at a Space Staion millions of miles away from Zebes,somehow managed with his immense size to stow away onboard without being noticed,then decided to reverse his age and become a "pet" to the science team to get a free meal.....yep,makes WAY more sense. -_- Marx Wraith 05:53, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

I just have to say, I'm fighting Mystery Creature as we speak, and that cutscene... I mean, seriously, just watch it again. Ridley is running away. He's just climbing a building getting away from the troops. He either is afraid of them and running away, or isn't interested in mindless killing at the moment. But as soon as Samus shows up, he jumps back in the fray, either because his hatred of her surpasses his fear, or because the kill would no longer be "for the sake of killing." Look at his face--he pauses and just eyes her briefly for a second. He immediately recognizes her and leaps straight on top of her, right as his minions show up to distract the troopers so he can fight her one-on-one. Why would he do any of that if it was just a "predatory instinct" as that other guy said? And I never said he randomly flew to the Bottle Ship and reversed his age. What the hell are you talking about? His cells survived on Samus and he resurrected himself. Or he was cloned but somehow retained his memory due to his unique cell structure retaining his memories for the sake of his resurrection abilities. Or MB did it. Hell, I don't know. But he knows that's Samus. Watch the scene again and you'll see. Dazuro 05:56, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

you're overanalyzing and getting flustered over this and confusing up everything, and already started up some personal attack on me for no reason. please, keep this civil.

also, you mean the time ridley set a trap for what he saw as the largest threat. 68.169.40.21 06:00, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

.. Personal attacks? What the heck are you talking about? And there's no reason that the "largest threat" theory should have credence over the "he remembers the woman that killed him last time" theory. It's scifientifically sound, and it makes a lot more sense. But again, I'm not saying we need to write HE REMEMBERS HER. No, I believe both theories need representation, because both have their evidence and both have plenty of supporters. Why can't we just be fair? Why do people keep coming in here and trying to shoehorn their theory in over everyone else's? They're both equally plausible, by the facts given in the game. Dazuro 06:02, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Yes I know the scene too,he DEFINFITELY looked like he recognized her, it was revenge time baby! Ridley is so freaking amazing clone or not he'd never forget the face of his biggest regret in life! Marx Wraith 06:03, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

But again, let me emphasize--I am not here to debate which theory is more plausible. I don't know. None of us do. The best course of action is to leave it off the page entirely, because we do not know the facts. We can't cite it by any means. It's a 50-50 crapshoot at best, one way or the other. So let's just leave things ambiguous and let the reader decide. That's our duty as an encyclopedia. To either provide all the facts, or provide several viable theories. Dazuro 06:05, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

"Comprehension issues, much?" you really should read the rules. i don't think you want to bring admins back into this.

also, because clones don't tend to remember things that never happened to them, but their originals. i mean, you only started with the genetic memory thing when admiral said it... but now you think he wasn't even cloned, and somehow came out of nowhere and the scientists, who are scientists, just started treating it like their pet? really.... 68.169.40.21 06:13, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

I said I'd beaten it twice. You told me I should beat the game before playing it. I somewhat jokingly suggested that you had comprehension issues there. It's not an attack; don't be so sensitive. And again, regardless of what real science says, this is not real life. It's plausible within the realm of Metroid, a lot of people believe it, and the game does somewhat support it. It's unjust to remove it just because you or Extrati or anyone else doesn't agree with it. Until we get official Word of God on the subject, all we can do is offer both theories or no theory at all. End of story.

As far as my alleged conspiracies, I don't know what I believe, I'm not debating my personal theory, I'm just pointing out that there are alternatives. Devil's advocate and such. I can see how that was confusing though. Dazuro 06:16, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

hm... you said three before, now it's two... and i said to beat the game before coming up with theories... something's not being very consistent here... i don't think you sincerely mean that it wasn't an attack at all, just because i disagree with you. in fact, it's just because you disagree with extraxi that you fought with him instead of detailing your theory before admiral said anything, and tried to get rid of what seems more sound versus.. ridley hopping out of a jar of goo while the scientists thought nothing of it... 68.169.40.21 06:24, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

I'm in the middle of my third run. Hence why I'm fighting Juvenile Ridley. But thanks for the implied attacks of your own there, they're definitely helping matters. I fought with Extraxi not because I disagree with his theory, but because he refused to allow any theory but his own to go on the page. And once Admiral spoke up, I realized that it made sense and acknowledged it as a possibility as well. And I never said Ridley hopped out of a jar. Stop oversimplifying my arguments. What is this, National go-out-of-your-way-to-irritate-Daz Week?

Look. We finally got the situation out of control. It took an admin to stop the fight last time. Will you just lay off and let us treat the theories fairly already? Stop escalating things. We do NOT need this. Dazuro 06:27, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

he didn't let any theory but his own..? then why did he keep telling you to put out evidence behind the theory you were fighting for? that doesn't make sense... why didn't you put out any evidence everytime he asked, anyway?

how about you explain in detail how exactly ridley regenerated from nothing but smears on samus' armor, and why scientists would suddenly treat something like that as a pet? 68.169.40.21 06:34, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

I did put forth evidence, which he conveniently ignored/pretended didn't exist/discounted with information from outside the Metroid series. But what the hell does all this matter? The page is locked, only admins can edit it, and obviously none of them are around at the moment. We're not accomplishing anything right now. In the interest of not getting the talkpage locked again, let's just leave it be. This won't end well otherwise and you know it. Dazuro 06:37, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

no, you didn't... there was always some smart remark from you everytime he asked. you only have to scroll up to see it. but let's try this again, since you ignored/pretended didn't exist...

how about you explain in detail how exactly ridley regenerated from nothing but smears on samus' armor, and why scientists would suddenly treat something like that as a pet? 68.169.40.21 06:40, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Again, what's the point? We're only going to accomplish getting this article locked and ourselves reprimanded. We can't change the article right now. Leave it be until an admin gets back. Dazuro 06:43, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

to prove you're not just putting out theories left and right without thinking about them... you wouldn't do it with extraxi, and the page wasn't locked then. you won't do it now, either, and you have no reason not to, but you spend time arguing why you shouldn't explain why instead.... 68.169.40.21 06:48, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, yes, it was, temporarily. Now lay off, you're not going to goad me into snapping again. Dazuro 06:50, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

i'm not goading you to snap. you're avoiding explaining how your theory works. but you expect it to be on the main ridley page? 68.169.40.21 06:52, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know how it happened. It happened with scifimagic or something. Who knows? The point is, he seems to remember her ingame, even if scientifically speaking he shouldn't be able to. That's something that's notable to mention on the page. Dazuro 06:56, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

sigh... don't you see, daz? you just want ridley to remember her. you want him to remember so bad that you want to come up with crazy theories in which he does remember independantly of zebesians... what you think as 'seems to remember' can be explained through predatorial behavior... i read a whole few wikipages on this after i read extraxi's detailing on how he couldn't remember, and it all comes together. the only thing that comes close would be admiral's theory, but that's incredibly farfetched, as well as brings up issues involving ridley's general reflexes as well as far too much data to be stored directly in dna without his dna being drastically different from head to toe, which would do something funny to his body...

i think you should just move on. a rock won't change its shape if you want it to really badly 68.169.40.21 07:02, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Man, this must be a really good game to warrant an argument this big. I havn't personally played it, but I asked my Biology teacher about this and he replied with a hugely complicated response about lots of this memories in genetics and stuff...

He said "...and some creatures can even store memories in their DNA, giving their CHILDREN and in some cases MAN MADE CLONES the knowledge of PLAUSIBLE PREDATORS..." This should clear up some chaff. He also said "...also, some creatures with intelligence close to man, like dolphins, can store PERSONAL MEMORIES of certain things, like favorite food sources or KNOWN NEMESIS'S..."

Now, this may clear things up. I've never played Metroid: Other M (heck, the only Metroid game I've played is Super Metroid, and I'm not even half way though it!) but I'm sick of having a respectable contributor (Dazuro) getting blasted with insults when he has a respectable argument backing him up. Benfen 11:12, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

it'd be pretty neat to get some respectable supporting details along with that 68.169.40.21 11:17, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean? I thought that that peice of info is ENOUGH supporting evidence for us to basically say that "[the new] Ridley may have [the old] Ridley's memories as in some animal cases memories are passed down through children and clones." My Biology teacher basically hit the nail on the head. But, why not just post both theories? Its just like the three Giza Pyramids. You need to keep your mind open. Benfen 11:25, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

From you, maybe, even though it requires a better source. But I gotta agree with the other anonymous here; reading back, Daz hasn't given a single bit of credence to any of his own theories, and kept any form of supporting evidence away from them, yet argued them on for what I'm sure is at least ten pages now. I think any theory that should be posted should only be posted if it has even the slightest bit of credability. Him saying that Ridley regenerated from armor shavings in front of the scientists, who thought nothing of it and treated it as a pet, would be one such 'complete bubcus' theory. 89.145.83.41 11:42, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Please do not expect me to understand this. I have no idea what scientists you are talking about and stuff like that. I feel like I should buy the game just to resolve this issue. Daz may be trying to avoid putting evidence behind his theory, but he was partly right. After looking up Youtube videoes, Ridley's face at the time of Mysterious Creature thingy was complete HATRED. So just pretend that my info from memories through genes was put up by him, OK? And I just wanted to resolve this before Daz got emotionally scarred for life as a result of uneeded name calling (Not from you anonymouses). I thought that would clear all argument. Just put both up and stop disscussing this. Seriously, this must be a prettey good game to get arguments this bad... Benfen 11:59, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * i would like to see admiral's theory's source, actually. it's pretty interesting. especially since it's pretty much the only thing slightly supporting the whole thing about ridley remembering... i really hope it doesn't turn out to be an explanation on how instinctual behaviour works. 68.169.40.21 11:50, September 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm explaining, so it'll contain spoilers. At one point in the game, I believe Melissa Bergman remarked on how they were cloning every strand of DNA they pulled off Samus' suit. When they accidently cloned Ridley, no one knew it was Ridley. (However, Daz believes Ridley being cloned was instead some way of regenerating, evidently.) That means that's an entirely new Ridley. The only way it could remember is if Admiral's theory has any credence to it, which I'm now also hoping for a source to.

Also, at the Mystery Creature phase, I really doubt anyone could tell any facial expressions from it. All you have to go on is his cold, calculative maneuver to eliminate a primary threat. Adding 'he had memories which is why he did it' doesn't make much sense without any proof behind it, which is where I believe this entire argument had started, in which Daz continued to refuse evidence (which, if you ask me, does seem like trolling, arguing without proof, so I can't blame Extraxi for getting notably frusturated), and now we're here. 89.145.83.41 12:10, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining, 89.145. Thanks heaps. Now I understand Daz's ignorance, and feel free too incorparate spoilers, I know nothing of the modern Metroid stories. But I am still on Daz's side. Partly. I think it can remember Samus, as it may have remembered her from the DNA on the strand of hair. But I have just taken the time to read over the remarks of other people, and I noticed that Admiral's take of it is the exact same of mine. You see, I just walked up to the teacher and asked: "Can a Clone retain memories of its origonal?" So, I'm not with Daz anymore. Im with Admiral. Anyway, keep posting, but this may be my last. I'm 13 and it's 10:23 PM on a Wednesday night in Australia XD. I might post back if my parents forget to send me to bed. Benfen 12:27, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * i believe daz had also implied some magical influence towards retaining memories earlier? anyway, pulling from what ex said, i think 'natural behavioral patterns' heavily outweigh an out there idea with little supporting explanations... 68.169.40.21 12:14, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * My theory is actually just an idea I had after watching an otherwise-bad Star Trek episode with a similar premise. I've tried to nitpick it and haven't found anything that makes it impossible using my moderate knowledge of biology, but it's not actually FROM any scientific source. I'll ask around with the teachers and people at school today, see if they can help me refine/refute it.--AdmiralSakai 12:19, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * awwww... well, maybe its for the best. processing sensory data with all information stored directly into dna would be... well, im not sure. really, really confusing? 68.169.40.21 12:25, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

woah man... youre thirteen? now thats impressive. anyway, i don't know what you mean about the strand of hair thing... 68.169.40.21 13:16, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

I think he's referring to my theory about workable generic memory. The entire biology department seems to be gone today, and nobody else I talked to understood the concept very well....... and 68.169, the data in DNA would be strictly used as long-term memory for prescisely the reason you mention: using it to remember how to do day-to-day tasks would be really, really slow. For those of you who know a little about computers, the DNA would serve as a sort of hard drive and the brain would serve as RAM: you don't store everything you're doing on the drive while you're doing it, but if you want something preserved for a long time with little degradation, you take the time to write it onto the disc.--AdmiralSakai 20:11, September 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * now the only question is how much can be stored in a single strand of dna... but i have a feeling it probably wouldnt end up being enough 68.169.40.21 20:41, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I'm trying to stay out of this, but serious question here--how exactly does Ridley demonstrate standard "predatory behavior" there? He was running away. A bigger threat showed up. He stopped running away to single her out. That's not predatory behavior or instincts. That's either a vendetta or pure stupidity. You say he targeted her for being the biggest threat--why would he do that if he was already trying to flee from the smaller threats? Dazuro 21:11, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

i think youre confusing stuff... he doesnt run away or even try to until after the boss fight with him, not before. you know, the boss fight that starts after ridley sees samus and sets a trap for her? if he tried to run before, then why would he have engaged them in the first place?

you really gotta stop putting out all these theories without thinking about them dude... getting kinda out of hand 68.169.40.21 21:18, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

What? What trap? He engaged the troopers, ran away, saw Samus, leapt onto Samus, and called minions to keep the troopers off him. That's not a trap. Dazuro 21:20, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

let me explain this as best i can... remember how as little birdie, he lured the scientist into his pen? think, and im serious about that, of this like that, only hes getting the drop on her in more than one way (heehee)

also, to point out something wrong with your idea... why, and please answer this with a direct answer since youve been avoiding doing that for a while now... why would he engage the troops at all if he were just going to run away from them, and why would he not just jump through a wall to run away like he ultimately did, but instead move over the entrance to the building that samus had to come out of? 68.169.40.21 21:24, September 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree. Please, tell us how that works out. 89.145.83.41 21:27, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

He killed Lyle and then the others found him, obviously. Look, why are you arguing this? The fact is, we do not know 100% for sure whether he remembers or not. You cannot confirm it either way. We can say which is more likely for literally hours with any amount of backing scientific evidence or logic or cutscene dynamics, but it is impossible to know for sure. So the article can NOT remain in its current state, which says he does not remember. Get it through your head already. '''We do not know. Therefore, we can not say the answer is yes or no.''' No matter how much evidence you or I produce, it doesn't matter. We can only present the fact that it may be this, or it may be that. Dazuro 21:29, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

You're avoiding answering again and saying it doesn't matter because no one is sure. You keep putting out theories that you can't even back up. Can you even admit when you had a bad idea? He ran away but decided to come back when something that could kill him showed up, and he didn't play to set a trap when he had set a trap before, even though he SAW Samus coming down? Really? 89.145.83.41 21:36, September 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * hes right. you havent backed up one theory youve made with any kind of explanation yet on the basis that "no one knows for sure". ridley had laid a trap before, but you think he didnt when he so obviously moved into a position that was a trap just for samus, because if he had run away, he wouldnt be there 68.169.40.21 21:39, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Are you going out of your way to be difficult? Look, I told you, I have no evidence for how it works or why it works. The game doesn't say. But from the cutscenes it's heavily implied he does remember. I don't know how or why. Don't ask me for evidence of it. There is none. But the fact remains that the game implies that somehow, through science or magic or Plotonium itself, Ridley remembers. You cannot discount that possibility. There is no evidence that says it was a trap either. And yes, that's exactly my point--he ran away, but decided to come back when something that could kill him showed up. That's exactly how the scene goes. That is not predatory instinct. I don't know what it is. Maybe he's just stupid. Maybe he has no memories but his sadism wanted to torture the only female there. I don't know. No one does. I'm not trying to avoid answering anything, I'm saying that we can NOT say "this is true" when the game never says its true. Deal with it, that's how this wiki works. It's blatant unsourced unciteable speculation that he has no memories. Dazuro 21:40, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

The game is far too ambiguous for us to decide either way, and the article should reflect that.--AdmiralSakai 21:42, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Precisely. So let's just remove the statement entirely. It adds nothing to the article, and we're supposed to avoid putting speculation in articles either way. If it can't be cited, it is to be removed, and you will find nothing in the game explicitly saying that he does not remember her, nor that he does. Dazuro 21:45, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

dude, didnt you listen earlier. you want it to be implied. all that cutscene implies is that ridley is smart and can set a trap, like a really good predator. theres nothing about memories in taking out the biggest threat first... and there is evidence it was a trap. like its been said but so conveniently ignored with selective reading, if he wanted to run away, he would be gone. if he wanted to set a trap, hed move over the one place she had to come out of. that is predatory instinct, man. that is a trap. yet you discount this because he might remember her based on nothing... i feel sorry for you 68.169.40.21 21:49, September 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * 68, don't bother. He's gonna keep coming up with new theories based on nothing, and continue to refuse backing up any of these theories with even slivers of evidence. And then he'll just keep discounting any theories with plenty of evidence, like how he had set a trap for the biggest threat, just like he lured a scientist into his pen, or how he was so obviously cloned and didn't somehow just regenerate from some blood scraped off of Samus' armor. I have to agree with Extraxi now. He's just a tank-type troll. "I don't care if I'm not right, you're wrong."

89.145.83.41 21:53, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

You pity me for actually wanting to be open-minded about something? God, I'm such a poor unfortunate soul, looking at both sides of an issue instead of plugging my ears and pretending the other side isn't talking. Either way, you're--yet again--completely ignoring the fact that I'm not debating my side. I don't give a shit what you personally believe. It's completely irrelevant. The game left it open-ended. I'm not going to sit here arguing about which one is more likely. Give me a single ingame citation saying "he does not remember Mother Brain or Samus" and I'll gladly concede. Do it already and I'll gladly drop it. But no. You can't do that. Because the game doesn't say so. I don't care how much outside-the-game information you bring in about predation patterns and trap-setting habits. It's not ingame evidence. Stop avoiding the subject and give me ingame evidence, how does that sound for a change? It's a video game, after all! So we want information from the video game. Fancy that. Dazuro 21:55, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

makes sense, i guess... would explain why he refuses to explain out his own ideas and ignores evidence of any idea that isnt his... im guessing youre thinking dont feed the trolls, so ill probably go with you on that. but one last thing...

you cant look at both sides of an issue, yet debate only one. thats biase 68.169.40.21 21:58, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Why should I have to debate for your side? You've provided ample reasoning why it's plausible, even if I personally disagree. I have no problem having it on the page as long as we don't say it's the only possibility. But by all means, keep calling me a troll so you don't have to face your own logical shortcomings. It worked great for the last guy, too. Dazuro 22:01, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

grow up, kid... i mean youre not arguing your own side because you know itll come crumbling down 68.169.40.21 22:04, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

WHAT side? I'm not taking a goddamned side. I just want both theories to be on the article, or neither theory to be on the article. Stop planting strawman arguments and give me a good reason to be fascist over which theory gets credence besides "evidence from outside the game suggests it." Dazuro 22:05, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

It would warm Ridley's soul if he knew that he has caused such derision amongst fans. More importantly though; when will the admins swoop in and nuke this conversation I wonder?

Marx Wraith 22:07, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Seriously, why can't we just put both/put neither in the meantime, and wait for Sakamoto's inevitable Q&A where he confirms it. Then one side can laugh it off while the other side realizes "meh, so I was wrong." End of debate, end of arguments, end of flaming. We're all happy. Dazuro 22:10, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

You know, I'm trying to be impartial here, but Daruzo is looking better and better and Anon 68 is looking worse and worse, to tell the truth. I for one support the compromise proposal that we say Ridley may or may not have his memories, and explain how or how not. But I doubt that anyone here is a conventional troll, so much as they honestly think they are right and will go to any lengths to retain that idea. Which arguably makes them harder to deal with.--AdmiralSakai 22:17, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Animal Instincts
I'm back! But only for a second. Gotta get ready for school. But I'm sorry for confusing you all, Strand of hair=Strand of DNA. Now, Metroid hasn't really ever shown animals with predatory instinct. I can kill 3 baddies in a row and still have more attacking. Now, is that predatory instinct? I think not. But I really have no idea. As we have said many times, JUST PUT THEM BOTH UP!! Damn, settle down! It's only a game. Benfen 22:05, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

true, but metroid has never shown samus emotionally distressed before either... a simpler way to put it, i guess, is that they brought more character to every cutscene. 68.169.40.21 22:08, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I'm not trying to stir up a hornet's nest, but I have another legitimate question here--if Ridley didn't in fact remember her... What's the deal with the battle in Sector 3? He clearly has no qualms killing people by throwing them off the ledge. But several times during the battle (or at LEAST once in the cutscene, more if you let him hit you) he will pick up Samus and fly over the pit of magma. What predator instinct would compel him to keep her alive and with a fighting chance? Why would he have no issue knocking Anthony off the cliff but fight Samus mano-a-mano. Hell, he actually does throw Samus down at one point--right back onto the platform to make sure she won't die immediately. What intelligent predator would do that to their biggest threat? Dazuro 22:55, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

You forget he's sadistic. 89.145.83.41 23:12, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

And yet he gave Anthony a lava bath without a second thought. Throughout the game, he shows sadism toward Samus alone while instantly dispatching or fleeing from anyone else. Dazuro 23:16, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe ridley is scared of samus in Other M Metroid101 23:19, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

If he doesn't remember her, he has no reason to fear her. All she's done is shoot his tail a few times and kill kihunters for him to eat. Anthony on the other hand has a big-old plasma cannon that put a hole straight in his side. If he has to fear anyone, it's him. Dazuro 23:20, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

He has no reason to fear her, even though she demonstrated her ability to destroy the hive single-handedly. Interesting. Regardless of this topsy-turvy logic, I'd be afraid of something stronger than me until I was at full strength. Underhanded moves and torturing follow.

Also, before you say anything, he probably tried to kill Anthony immediately after he stepped up to defend Samus because of his plasma beam, since he didn't know Samus' would be infinitely stronger. 89.145.83.41 23:26, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. Don't necessarily agree, but it's possible. Dazuro 23:29, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Ooh, I like this unregistrated contributer ... whoever you are, you need an account, we need people like you! I think that ridley left the battle because he knew he was going to die, so he fled hoping to live so he ran off to heal only to fight again, not because he was a coward. Metroid101 00:21, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Survival instinct. It's pretty evident the plasma beam really hurt him. I don't think Ridley ever realizes how long it takes to shoot it, though. 89.145.83.41 00:27, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Are you going to get an account?? we need you here!! Metroid101 00:32, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

I'll probably return to Earthbound due to all the baseless opposition here. But this isn't the place for that, feel free to write on my talk. 89.145.83.41 00:40, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

You bring up a very good point about Ridley and Anthony. I don't know, doen't anyone agree with me that Ridley simply just regained original Ridley's instincts? Believe it or not, but holding a big grudge against someone can actually become an instinct to kill that person, especially an animal-dragon-thing... Point is, Clone Ridley just simply gained all original Ridley's insticts, nothing more. He doesn't know who Samus is, but wants to kill her. And I know someone is going to mention this "but what about Ridley from Super Metroid, he's a clone and he clearly remembers Samus". I for one don't think he was a clone. I don't know how he survived being completely destroyed as the Leviathan Guardian, but your ship logs didn't mark him dead. While, Ridley is fleshy in Super Metroid and not meta is simply because he didn't want to be meta anymore, so since he can regenerate body parts, that means he regenerated all his missing parts that were used as meta parts. Dr.Pancake 01:11, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Cloned species normally retain the instincts of the original, unless someone messed up the test tube. The instinct to kill Samus specifically is arguable with killing the largest threat. Also, I'm not sure anyone thinks the Ridley in Super Metroid is a clone. 89.145.83.41 01:19, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

A lot of people do simply because of him not being meta or anything advance, but what I stated before is what I think why Ridley isn't meta anymore in that game. Dr.Pancake 01:33, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think of Meta-Ridley as canon, personally, and think people just wanted to give their own artistic representation of some interesting boss. But, in retrospect, it does explain how he recovered from his initial contraction of Head Explode Disease. Once recovered, he wouldn't really need the enhancements anymore. 89.145.83.41 01:40, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Not canon? What!? It was just confirmed that everything in the Prime Trilogy is canon now. Mecha Ridley which is from Zero Mission proves that as well. Dr.Pancake 01:48, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

I know, but it's my way of interperting it to avoid huge whatonearths when it goes from Prime to Super Metroid.

Also, if Ridley's recovery back to organic is covered in Retro's next Metroid hinted in Corruption, then I can go back to not thinking it's just awkward to just turn him into a cyborg and have him suddenly not be one the next time you see him. 89.145.83.41 01:51, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Retro indeed needs to make another game. Clearly, theres a big gap between Prime 3 and Metroid II. Dr.Pancake 01:59, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

i wonder how theyll explain how samus loses all of her stuff this time 68.169.40.21 02:06, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Samus will start PMSing, so she'll throw all her upgrades away. Lol, seroiusly though, maybe you don't lose your upgrades like in Corruption and technically Other M. Dr.Pancake 02:26, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, 89.145 should get an account here. But to the point. My biology teacher kindly looked it up for me. In a book appropritley named 'Survival instincts', we found that some animals (notably dolphins and most species of parasite) DO retain ALL MEMORY of their ancestors. The teacher said that the same could be said about the clone, because clones are made in essentially the same way as normals. Now, yopu guys happy? Probably not. But the game designers probably never wanted it this way. Mabye that the Ridley wasn't meant to be a clone in the first place, but that idea was scrapped and they forgot to take out all parts that refer to that? Mabye they did this to confuse us? I don't know. PUT BOTH THEORIES UP!!!! Benfen 06:08, September 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * You don't need me. You have Admiral and Extraxi, given if the poor admin choices didn't scare him off. (It's amazing, they both called each other trolls and only Extraxi got blocked. Great moderation there.) Benfen and probably some other people, too. 89.145.83.41 06:16, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I don't see what's the 'blasphemy!' of putting both theories. What's so wrong about it? Neither theories are considered true, yet. As I said before, I somewhat believe Ridley doesn't remember, but putting why he does as well isn't wrong. Eh, either way, we won't be able to edit Ridley's page for a while. Dr.Pancake 06:30, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, I won't be spending much time on this wiki for the moment, but I do hope that I can get more involved with Metroid, so I can help the good souls on this wiki. But, all we need is an admin, right? That will change this page. Yay! I resolved a argument! And I didn't know Ex got blocked. If he can read this, sorry for taking Daz's side. Farewell for a while. Benfen 06:37, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, I won't be spending much time on this wiki for the moment, but I do hope that I can get more involved with Metroid, so I can help the good souls on this wiki. But, all we need is an admin, right? That will change this page. Yay! I resolved a argument! And I didn't know Ex got blocked. If he can read this, sorry for taking Daz's side. Farewell for a while. Benfen 06:37, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

I think we're done with this discussion. Anyone who continues it will get a nice little ban for disruption. Because, in case you haven't noticed, you people aren't accomplishing anything. You all are disrupting to prove a point. -- FastLizard4 {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) - Would you like to participate in the new forum trials? 11:44, September 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, I'm so sure we're done with this discussion that I'm just going to remove the offending bullet point from the article, protect it for two more weeks, and protect this talk page for one week. I also expect this "discussion" not to show up anywhere else on this wiki, or it's going to be blocks all around. -- FastLizard4 {ADMIN} (Talk&bull;Contribs&bull;Logs) - Would you like to participate in the new forum trials? 12:01, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Do clones have to look like the original?
Eh, I'm probably thinking this way to hard, but is the reason why Ridley looks so different in this game because he's a clone or something? Although, there was never a 3D fleshy Ridley, the one in Brawl seems to be what I'd expect Ridley to look in 3D and I'm not the only one who thinks so... I'm pretty sure its just the style they used for him, but part of me says that's not how the real Ridley would look. Dr.Pancake 03:33, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

That's how he looks in the flashback from the commercial. Dazuro 03:34, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

True, but the commercial is just a promotion of the game. I don't think they would completely change his look just because they wanted to show how the original Ridley would look during K-2L. Meh, I'm probably rethinking this way too much, I'm pretty sure its just the style they used for him. Dr.Pancake 03:40, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Look how different the Varia Suit looks now. They used that same design for the Mother Brain flashback. Artistic changes are artistic changes. That is all. Metroid's full of them. Dazuro 03:57, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I figured as much. We'll be seeing a lot more changes for sure in future games. I guess everyone has their own perspective of how Ridley looks. Just like Prime, the 2D games and Brawl have their own. Dr.Pancake 04:08, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Man...
Forgot this page was protected. Can any admin add these two images?



You should have just uploaded it as a new version of the old one, then. Dazuro 08:38, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, but they never show when placed. I did that with the Maurice deceased and Ridley killed images and it still shows the old ones. You have to actually go to the trouble of clicking the image full-size just to see it. I thought just uploading a new one would be better. Dr.Pancake 08:44, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Other M
Since other m is out now and all of Ridleys info in the game is there the info regarding him appearing in trailers should probably removed Oni Dark Link  16:11, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Is this going to be unlocked soon? The article is missing several of the new categories that it needs. ChozoBoy (Talk/Contribs) 01:05, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Theres two things that need to be added as well: it needs to mention the super armor ability that the Ridley clone uses to deflect everything but Super Missiles (an ability never before used by the original Ridley). And finally, it should be noted that, in regards to Other M's Ridley cutscene with Samus's reaction, it is heavily hinted that the original Ridley died only once in the past. There are many clues in Prime Trilogy that support this as well (too many to post). (24.201.170.219 03:41, September 22, 2010 (UTC))


 * One thing that seems off to me about Ridley is him specifically going after her during his attack on them during their second form once he notices her, can this be used to imply possible memory? Great Mara 03:44, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Look in the above posts and you'll see the results of a raging debate concerning memories that (i think) has yet to be settled. (24.201.170.219 03:58, September 22, 2010 (UTC))

Disambiguation
I am thinking of creating a disambiguation page for all the various Ridleys and Ridley-like things floating around on the wiki. Any suggestions, warnings, or complaints I would want to hear before messing with such a contentious article?--AdmiralSakai 20:41, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Good idea!! We should make the disambig's for ridley 20:52, September 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey! I said that idea, like, forever ago... Extraxi 18:06, September 26, 2010 (UTC)