Talk:Metroid Nest Access

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Schrodinger's Room

This is a... very weirdly defined "room". Not by this article, but rather by the games themselves.

In Metroid II: Return of Samus, the egg's room is the same room that contains the Morph Ball tunnel underneath it. However, it is also technically the same room as the crystal tunnels and the landing site on the surface, since there are no more screen transitions upon entering the egg chamber.

In Metroid: Samus Returns, as confirmed by the map, the egg's room is the same room as the Queen's nest, and is no longer the same room as the crystal tunnels. The only time there's a screen transition is when loading the baby hatching cutscene; as soon as the baby is hatched, Samus can immediately turn around and return to the Queen's side of the room without any screen transition. The Morph Ball tunnel is now part of the shaft with the Save/Teleport Stations... but is actually separate from the egg's room, again as defined by the map; while can see into the egg chamber while you're in the tunnel, that's only because Samus Returns can have multiple rooms visible at once (see the main image of three tower corridors for another example).

So... what to do about this article? Honestly, I thought having the egg chamber's information on the Queen's nest article was our safest option. Especially in light of that long RfC about room articles, having the Queen Metroid and the Metroid Egg rooms together in a single article helped bolster the case for keeping that article due to notability. The Queen's nest in Samus Returns also shows more eggs in the background of the Queen Metroid fight, so it makes sense that the Queen's room is where the last egg would be found. With Samus Returns being the more recent title, it would also make sense that we follow its definition of the room layout... not to mention that following Return of Samus would mean merging the egg room into Landing Site (SR388) instead. It also safely avoids the whole problem with the Morph Ball tunnel now being part of a separate room.

But am I just overthinking this? What do you think? --PeabodySam (talk) 14:19, May 1, 2020 (UTC)

I feel that we can consider the tunnels after this to be a separate room(s), even if there's no transitions. At some point there has to be a cutoff. Think of neighborhood streets. They're all connected, but at some point you stop walking on 2nd Street and you start on 3rd. Not that you'd have a screen transition when walking, of course. I did consider how it would work based on how it's changed over time, and came to the conclusion that discussing this room, or part of room, would necessitate its own page. Given that a very important event takes place here, and talking about its layout and that event would detract from the article about the Queen's nest, which should focus on that, or an Area 8 room list, I decided to split it. RoyboyX(complaints/records) 16:25, May 1, 2020 (UTC)

Unlike other 2D games, many Metroid II rooms aren't separated by doors and we don't have any official maps, so we have to define the room boundaries by screen transitions (either the "camera pan" transition or the "fade to black" transition). Samus Returns, on the other hand, gives us a map that clearly indicates where rooms begin and end. Unfortunately, the two games don't always align, and that's where the mess starts.

In this case, I think it's better if we play this particular sequence of rooms by the Samus Returns map, since it's easier to just say the egg chamber is the same as the Queen's nest (and thus separate from the vertical shaft/Morph Ball tunnel or the crystal tunnel) than to try dealing with how ill-defined it is in Metroid II. As I said before, in terms of lore and story, it makes sense for the egg chamber to be the same room as the Queen's nest, and having both the Queen Metroid battle and subsequent hatching Baby take place within the same room helps bolster the strength of a single room article. Think of it less as "the egg chamber is too important to have on the Queen's nest article" and more as "multiple related story events in this one room makes it really important enough to have an article". After all, the Baby's birth goes hand-in-hand with the Queen's death.

As for the vertical shaft and Morph Ball tunnel, I whipped up a draft in my sandbox for giving that its own separate article so we don't have to deal with the headache that comes with how Samus Returns reorganized that portion of the map. However, like I said, separating that from the egg chamber's article makes the egg chamber itself less interesting as a standalone room, which is why once again combining it with the Queen's nest makes it stronger as an article. --PeabodySam (talk) 19:13, July 18, 2020 (UTC)

Very well. If I may offer a suggestion, convert the Egg chamber article into Metroid Nest Access using your draft, and add the egg chamber part back to the Queen's nest page. Also, addendum to my earlier point about the tunnels after the egg chamber: I was thinking of AM2R when I said there were transitions in the tunnels making them separate rooms. In both of the official games about the SR388 incident, they're one long cavern, which I think should also have a page. RoyboyX(complaints/records) 07:57, July 19, 2020 (UTC)