Ridley as Proteus Ridley = First Final Boss in a Metroid game?[edit source]

If Samus Returns marks the first time Ridley (as Proteus Ridley) being a final boss in a Metroid game, is the Ridley Robot from Zero Mission not counted despite being a mechanical being with Ridley's likeness? Pat141eliteTalkRangerWikiKamen Rider WikiNarutopediaSuperpower WikiStreet FighterWikitroidMMKBPR Fanon12:43,9/18/2017 12:43, September 18, 2017 (UTC)

Pretty much, since while made in Ridley's likeness, it's not the same thing as fighting the actual Ridley. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 13:47, September 18, 2017 (UTC)

Deceased category[edit source]

Should Proteus Ridley's article be in the "Deceased" category? I say no. While it may be pedantic, Proteus Ridley is merely a form of Ridley, not its own distinct character. Proteus Ridley ceased to exist once he became normal Ridley. Ridley died, Proteus Ridley did not. --PeabodySam (talk) 02:28, April 29, 2020 (UTC)

Bump. --PeabodySam (talk) 01:51, June 26, 2020 (UTC)
I agree, the stages/forms don't necessarily die. The category should only belong on the "parent" Ridley article, not on this one or Mystery Creature, among others. --Madax the Shadow {ADMIN} (talklogscontribs) 18:00, June 28, 2020 (UTC)

Critical Trivia[edit source]

I noticed that this was recently added to Trivia:

  • The end of the battle with Proteus Ridley is the first and only time that Samus removes herself from the premises and willingly leaves the body of her nemesis intact. This course of action is rather uncharacteristic of her, especially when taking into account their violent history together. Nearly all other encounters between them conclude with Samus destroying Ridley's body, with a few instances where he falls into a chasm beyond her reach. In particular, his first defeat on Zebes was severe to the point of taking him three years to recover.
    • As a result of Samus leaving Ridley intact on SR388 before heading to the Ceres colony where she leaves the last Metroid to a group of scientists, some Metroid fans have pointed to her being negligent and indirectly responsible for the tragedy that transpire in Super Metroid where Ridley follows her to the colony and kills everyone onboard. The retcon thus portrays her as an incompetent individual, causing further displeasure to fans who already dislike Ridley's inclusion in Samus Returns for other reasons such as his battle removing the tone and atmosphere present in the original ending to Metroid 2.

Simply put, I strongly disagree with the argument presented in this, but I'd like to see what others think before I go ahead and remove it.

First of all, the starting claim that this "is the first and only time" this happens is actually incorrect. We've seen this once before in Other M: Samus fights Ridley, he goes down, she takes a moment to inspect his unmoving body, and then she turns and walks away. Yes, Ridley gets up and flies away before she can leave the room, but this shows that Samus doesn't end every single fight by completely and utterly destroying Ridley. She defeats him and then moves on instead of verifying that he's dead, which is essentially what happens in nearly every game when you consider Ridley never died until Super Metroid.

Now, before you say Other M isn't the best example of Samus's character, I would like to go back to Metroid and specifically Zero Mission. When they created Metroid, they probably weren't planning on having a sequel featuring Ridley and Kraid, so they both explode into meaty chunks upon their defeat. While Ridley was retroactively given a healing factor showcased via Meta/Omega/Proteus Ridley, Kraid has never received a canonical explanation for his recovery, so clearly that's not meant to be canon. The remake, Zero Mission, has Ridley and Kraid go down in a series of small explosions and then vanish in a bigger explosion in the same style as other bosses, but this time they are not shown exploding into gibs like in Metroid (or Ridley in Super Metroid, which should be noted to be the first time he canonically dies). Once again, no explanation given for how Kraid could possibly recover if he literally exploded... therefore, I'm strongly inclined to believe that these aren't literal explosions, just the game illustrating that the boss is defeated in a flashy fashion. In actuality, what is more canonically likely is that Kraid and Ridley are left intact enough to survive. So, regardless of however much Ridley was "destroyed" in Zero Mission, Samus made a mistake in leaving him for dead in that game, just like she does in Samus Returns with Proteus Ridley.

With that said, note that Proteus Ridley's defeat animation shows him engulfed in a series of small explosions, much like his defeat animation in Zero Mission. The only difference is that Zero Mission simply removes his sprite from the screen after he's done exploding, while Samus Returns has the graphical fidelity to show Proteus Ridley's body as he collapses to the ground. Again, this supports the notion that Ridley didn't literally explode into nothingness in Zero Mission.

One last counterargument: the claim that Ridley needed three years to recover from Zero Mission is dubious. Nintendo has a really poor track record when it comes to dating anything after Zero Mission, with one Samus Returns commercial stating that it takes place only one year later.

Now, onto the second point. I feel like this is really unnecessary. While it's fair to mention fan criticisms of Samus Returns in the reception section of the game's article (as Latinlingo has already done), the way it's presented here comes across as really biased and one-sided. Yes, there's a vocal faction of fans who dislike Proteus Ridley's role in Samus Returns, but there's at least just as many fans who love Proteus Ridley for being a fantastic final boss, rectifying Samus/Ridley's relationship after Other M, and firmly establishing Metroid Prime's placement in canon (after some mistranslated comments caused fans to fear it was deemed non-canon). This isn't like Other M criticisms where at least there's a solid majority opinion formed in the fanbase over a decade of scrutiny.

But calling Samus "an incompetent individual", "negligent", and "indirectly responsible" for the Ceres incident is a step too far. I mean, if we're going to blame her for not doing a good enough job killing Proteus Ridley, why not blame her for everything else, starting with not doing a good enough job killing Ridley, Kraid, and Mother Brain in the original Metroid? Even if we take Proteus Ridley out of the equation, Samus leaving the baby Metroid at Ceres while fully knowing that the Space Pirates are still out there and still want Metroids is a bad decision with tragic consequences, and it's been that way long before Samus Returns came out. Blaming Proteus Ridley for this supposed Samus character derailment just feels like a real stretch to me. --PeabodySam (talk) 01:51, June 26, 2020 (UTC)

Fully agreed, and besides, we still don't know HOW Ridley tracked Samus and the Baby over to Ceres anyhow. Maybe if had it ended in a similar manner to the 100% ending for Corruption where it shows a ship ominously following Samus's ship as she warps out, we could reasonably assume Ridley stalked her to Ceres and stole the Metroid. But as it is, the only thing we can definitely say is that Ridley was at least aware of the Baby being in Samus's possession. For all we know, planted agents within the Federation merely leaked the location to Ridley and Mother Brain. So we really can't hold Samus responsible for Ridley raiding Ceres later on (which is a significantly different situation from, say, the situation in Other M, which DEFINITELY was all on her and not one of the game's better moments). If we really need to address those kinds of criticisms against Samus Returns, we should at LEAST wait a decade before doing so, to see if they pan out or if public opinion DOES in fact turn against it. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 11:28, June 26, 2020 (UTC)
Whoa, I didn't think he'd go that far. I was advising him on how to phrase fan criticisms of the overall game. Regarding "three years to recover", he's probably going by the Prime Trilogy art booklet which says Metroid Prime 1 takes place 3 years after Zero Mission, but later media has really thrown that for a loop. RoyboyX(complaints/records) 18:19, June 26, 2020 (UTC)
I tend to go by the art book because I think a promotional art book for the game it is referring to (Metroid Prime Trilogy contains Metroid Prime 1) is more trustworthy then a random Japanese commercial for a later game that isn't part of the Prime series. Besides, later media contradicts itself too much. PurpleSamurai5.0 18:39, June 26, 2020 (UTC)
I apologize for not thoroughly discussing my contributions with the staff before implementing them into the article. From now on, I give my word to verify with other members before making any substantial changes to articles.
I propose the second paragraph to be rewritten as:
As a result of Samus leaving Ridley intact on SR388 before heading to the Ceres colony where she leaves the last Metroid to a group of scientists, some Metroid fans regard the retcon as negatively impacting her character. The post-credits cutscene in Samus Returns strongly imply he made a quick recovery and followed her to the colony, leading to the tragedy on Ceres at the start of Super Metroid. This has caused some fans to dislike Ridley's inclusion in the remake, among other reasons such as his battle altering the original ending to Metroid 2.
I now present my arguments below for why this trivia information (along with the first paragraph regarding Ridley's explosive defeats) should be kept in some shape or form:
Regarding the canon material presented in Other M. Before that game came out, everyone seemed to accept the idea that Ridley had died at least once in past battles due to how some games clearly demonstrated or strongly implied his body was thoroughly destroyed. Some fans even believed that cloning was a common occurrence within the Pirate armies to explain the reappearances of notable members. It is only with Other M that we were forced into swallowing the idea that, somehow, Ridley had never died until Super Metroid and that cloning was never an option until Other M. With Prime 3 we now have to, metaphorically speaking, "squint our eyes" hard enough to believe Omega Ridley did not die in that second battle. Keep in mind Other M presents further questionable lore such as the statement that Mother Brain is the only thing capable of controlling Metroids when there is clear evidence she never could. Despite the new canon lore presented in Other M however, I believe it is always important to keep mention of how Ridley's defeats are visually presented in past titles, which is why in Wikitroid's page dedicated to him, there's a sentence near the top of the article that reads "Strangely, some of his prior battles ended with his body seemingly exploding, but in-game lore states he survived these violent defeats until Super Metroid."
Which brings me to Ridley's defeat in Zero Mission. While it is true that his explosion can be interpreted as the game illustrating his defeat in a flashy fashion, Metroid Prime Trilogy states that 3 years passed between ZM and Prime 1. In the latter game, Ridley is shown to have JUST finished recovering on the frigate Orpheon, therefore implying whatever piece(s) was left of him back on Zebes took this long to heal, and even then parts of his original body have still not recovered as they are slowly regenerating under the cybernetics throughout the entirety of the Prime saga. With such devastation inflicted onto him, it's evident that Samus tried her darndest to kill him in ZM and believed him to be dead as a result. Even the prequel manga, which is admittedly pseudo-canon, shows Samus reducing Ridley to an indistinguishable mass of burning flesh in the final chapter before letting out a warrior's cry, further strenthening the idea that she rightfully believed him to be dead based on the damage she personally inflicted onto him. Interesting to mention is that an unused Samus monologue in Prime 1 had her state that a full decade had passed after ZM, which meant that Ridley was originally meant to have taken an even longer time to heal from the severe wounds dealt to him.
Now take into account the above (the 3 year gap between ZM and Prime 1 due to the extensive damage, the manga interpretation) and compare it with the battle against Ridley in Samus Returns. The difference is as night and day. Ridley merely falls to the ground after his cybernetics simply short-circuit, she leaves, and the post-credits cutscene seemingly confirms he makes the quickest recovery in the history of the series. This actually makes alot of sense due to not only how tame his defeat was in comparison to previous games, but also how long it took for him to reappear between appearances. This is what I meant when I wrote some fans deem Samus' actions as negligent or irresponsible, because by that point in time she is FULLY aware of Ridley's ability to survive, yet she chooses to leave him in such a tame manner (in comparison to other battles) that it was practically guaranteed he would be back in a short time span. Furthermore, Samus chooses to leave Ceres unprotected despite her being the best Pirate-deterrent in existence. Why didn't Samus, say, choose to do a repeat of ZM to make sure the seemingly immortal Ridley wouldn't come back for a few years? Or stay behind on Ceres to defend it from Ridley who was definitely gonna reappear quicker than ever? But I digress. As I proposed on the changes to be made on the second trivia paragraph, all mentions of her being negligent and such will be removed.
Finally, regarding his defeat in Other M which is also quite tame. Based on what the game wants us to believe, Samus is in a troubled mental state all throughout, especially after her troubling reaction when seeing Ridley back from a "definitive" dead state. Additionally, her friend Anthony is believed to have just been murdered by him. It's safe to say that Samus is in a bad state after the battle's conclusion, as she goes to briefly grieve her friend by walking towards his gun on the floor, therefore explaining her actions to leaving Ridley on the floor. I'd like to point out that in the first trivia paragraph I wrote "Nearly all other encounters between them conclude with Samus destroying Ridley's body, with a few instances where he falls into a chasm beyond her reach." I hoped that by writing the word "Nearly", it would leave enough space for readers to include Other M's battle on their own accord without me needing to write further details. Additionally, the sentence prior to that one I wrote "This course of action is rather uncharacteristic of her, especially when taking into account their violent history together". Once more, I hoped that readers would interpret the word "history" as "events that chronologically took place before Samus Returns".
I'm open to further discuss the changes to be made on the two trivia paragraphs so they may remain in a more presentable condition, but I do not agree that they be removed altogether. Latinlingo (talk) 09:54, June 27, 2020 (UTC)
Fair enough. I'm still not entirely sure on how exactly we should deem that negligent of Samus though. Especially when there was literally no evidence that Proteus Ridley was even AWARE of the direction Samus was headed in. Yes, Proteus Ridley most certainly would have known that Samus had the Baby in possession. But that was the full extent of the knowledge going by all evidence. The most we could possibly say is that the Space Pirates most likely had spies within Ceres that notified them after they found the Baby Metroid, which probably would have happened even if Samus made sure to take care of Proteus Ridley thoroughly. Now, if they in the ending made sure to show a Space Pirate space ship stalking Samus as she warps out (you know, similar to the 100% ending for Corruption where a ship that was heavily implied to belong to Sylux was seen stalking Samus as she entered hyperspace), then we can definitely state that Samus was indeed negligent and that Ridley arriving at Ceres was indeed her fault. But as it is we really have no real way of knowing how Ridley managed to deduce Ceres was where the Baby Metroid was at, let alone that Samus was responsible for that bit beyond not actually killing him or even sufficiently wounding him (there are LOTS of research facilities owned by the Federation, especially if we go by Federation Force and the 100% ending with Sylux. And that's not even counting the BSL station or the Bottle Ship. Trying to find which research station the Federation was holding the Baby isn't exactly that easy.). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 11:13, June 27, 2020 (UTC)
"Or stay behind on Ceres to defend it from Ridley who was definitely gonna reappear quicker than ever?"
I went back and rewatched the intro of Super Metroid. Note that Samus's narration states that she did not leave Ceres until she was certain that all was well (and then, of course, Ridley arrives shortly after she leaves). While no specific length of time is ever given, the scientists have already produced significant findings based on their baby Metroid research... and as a scientist myself, I'll say that research isn't really the quickest thing in the world. So, from this, we can conclude that Samus most likely spent some time at Ceres before she left.
So again, this isn't a problem created by Proteus Ridley's addition to canon. If you had a problem with Samus's decision-making here, it was long before Samus Returns came out. In fact, Samus sticking around Ceres until she was sure everything was alright makes even more sense in light of her recent encounter with Proteus Ridley.
"Regarding the canon material presented in Other M. Before that game came out, everyone seemed to accept the idea that Ridley had died at least once in past battles due to how some games clearly demonstrated or strongly implied his body was thoroughly destroyed. Some fans even believed that cloning was a common occurrence within the Pirate armies to explain the reappearances of notable members."
Wouldn't you think that something as significant as cloning would be worth mentioning in the lore? Not once did Super Metroid lore ever say that Ridley and Kraid were killed in Metroid but resurrected by cloning; it's just "Hey, remember these guys from the first game? Well, they're back and badder than ever!" without any in-universe justification. Cloning would only be a fan hypothesis without any canonical evidence, while the manga, Metroid Prime, and Other M all make it clear that Ridley never died in Zero Mission and point to Super Metroid, the only (pre-Fusion) canonical game where Ridley's body is totally destroyed, as his first true death. The only real outlier is Corruption which, like you said, forces us to "squint our eyes" to swallow the idea that Omega Ridley wasn't disintegrated into nothingness like the other Leviathan bosses, but at least they weaseled their way out of showing said disintegration on-screen. Therefore, I'm still inclined to believe that Other M and Samus Returns show a more accurate on-screen depiction of Ridley's non-lethal defeats than what would be literally presented in Zero Mission.
"Metroid Prime Trilogy states that 3 years passed between ZM and Prime 1."
Once again, that's dubious. Yes, the Trilogy artbook says three years between Zero Mission and Prime, but that's never explicitly stated in-game or in any other source. The Year 20X5 article goes into greater depth about timeline discrepancies, with more recent sources suggesting a much shorter length of time, "less than a year" according to SR388 Data File. Therefore, I would advise against toting it as an indisputable fact.
Though, I do see your point about Proteus Ridley healing quicker than usual. That's something that could be noted in the Trivia section, but I do think that is a case of the game developers writing themselves into a corner and needing to justify Ridley being fully healed by the time of Super Metroid. At least it's visually explained, unlike Corruption.
"It's safe to say that Samus is in a bad state after the battle's conclusion, as she goes to briefly grieve her friend by walking towards his gun on the floor, therefore explaining her actions to leaving Ridley on the floor."
And what would be her state of mind at the end of Samus Returns? "I've got to stick around on this death world in the middle of a hurricane to make sure Ridley really is dead, even though every single other time I've fought him he just comes back anyways"? Or "I've got to get off this planet ASAP and get the baby Metroid to safety, better do so now while Ridley's still down for the count"? Personally, I see it as the latter, and I think that's what MercurySteam intended. Perhaps that's something to be said for Samus's character... in the moment, she cared more about keeping the baby Metroid alive than she did about keeping Ridley dead. Maybe not the wisest decision, but one that characterizes her as more than just a Ridley-killing machine.
"I hoped that by writing the word "Nearly", it would leave enough space for readers to include Other M's battle on their own accord without me needing to write further details. [...] Once more, I hoped that readers would interpret the word "history" as "events that chronologically took place before Samus Returns"."
But in doing so, by deliberately leaving this unmentioned, you present an incomplete picture meant to support this argument without the refuting evidence. The absolute "first and only time" claim certainly doesn't help. --PeabodySam (talk) 16:09, June 27, 2020 (UTC)
While you both bring up good points, I think this debate is pointless. People can read about Ridley and Samus and decide for themselves without having this theory forced onto them. Readers are not dumb, they can decide things for themselves. So I think we should just delete the new addition. PurpleSamurai5.0 17:52, June 27, 2020 (UTC)
About the time length between games. Well, there are "cosmic years" and "common years". ZM happens in the year 20X5, but Federation Force is placed in the year 20X6, and then we have a Super Metroid commercial where places the game in 20X7. Well, maybe to fulfill a cosmic year takes several "common years", more than 5 to be precise. --Rodriguez/Predalien/Gallian (talk) 18:06, June 27, 2020 (UTC)

Responding to WeedleMcHairybug,

Classic Metroid usually divulges its stories in a "show, don't tell" fashion. Things are left to interpretation, an example being how Metroid 2 allowed players to piece together the connection between the Chozo ruins and the Queen Metroid's lair. Basically, we work with what is visually presented to us. Samus Returns' post-credits cutscene shows that Ridley's metal claw has been left behind with its owner nowhere to be seen, and then he suddenly shows up on Ceres soon afterwards without any metal armor. Although not explicitly stated (as classic Metroid tends to avoid doing), the obvious implication here is that he ditched his armor and followed her to Ceres. Here's another example of an implied idea that was accepted in the wikitroid: The Phaz-Ing origin. The fact that we find Phaz-Ings on Phaaze and the Ing from Prime 2 seemingly came into being after a Leviathan impacted Aether, the implication here is that that the latter evolved from the former. Nothing directly states this, but the implication was worthy enough to mention in their respective articles. Such is the way I see the implications of Ridley following Samus to Ceres: nothing in SR or SM outright tells us he followed her, but what is implied shouldn't be ignored.

Responding to PeabodySam

"If you had a problem with Samus's decision-making here, it was long before Samus Returns came out."

The original Metroid 2 had no Pirates involved in any way whatsoever. Considering that Pirates had appeared in every single other game, their absence is of GREAT significance and helped amplify (plot-wise) their surprise return in Super Metroid which, according to Fusion and Other M, was their final desperate stand.

Samus Returns tells us that Samus did the exact same decision-making AFTER seeing Ridley alive. That is the problem here. She just saw undeniable proof that the Pirates are back in action. Compare this to the original interpretation (Metroid 2's), where she exterminated the Metroids without the Pirates trying to stop her. This speaks volumes. The Pirates' most valued specimens, a vital portion of their plans to defeat the Federation, were being wiped out and they did... nothing. This can be interpreted as the Pirates being finally gone or its survivors too scattered to pose a threat anymore. This made Samus' decision-making into Super Metroid's intro more justified back then, or at the very least it made her choices less questionable than the remake's retcon.

"Cloning would only be a fan hypothesis without any canonical evidence"

The cloning idea began to gain track after the release of Metroid Fusion, which featured a perfectly preserved Ridley despite the events of Super where he clearly exploded into bits along with the planet he was killed on. The Prime series further strengthened the idea of cloning when Omega Ridley seemingly exploded into particles yet reappeared completely fine in Super. The only other possible explanation to all his appearances back then, was that not all Ridleys were the same individual but instead different members of the same race. I've been around since the creation of the Metroid Database, and I can tell you those two ideas were frequently discussed. I mean, what else could fans deduce from all of the above back then? Other M eventually came along of course and "cleared things up" in a controversial way.

"But in doing so, by deliberately leaving this unmentioned, you present an incomplete picture meant to support this argument without the refuting evidence"

I once wrote back in 2018 more or less the same idea regarding Samus seemingly destroying Ridley's body during their battles, along with the additional paragraph below:

Metroid: Other M features the only other instance where their duel ends with Ridley fleeing the battlefield as a direct result of Samus' actions. When he falls unconscious on the floor within the Pyrosphere, Samus walks a few feet away in order to lament the recent loss of her ally, Anthony Higgs, whom she falsely believed to be murdered by Ridley. This act gives her nemesis the opportunity to escape the vicinity.

This, among other trivia, were removed by you back in 2019 with your justification being "Trivia seemed excessively long". I figured that I could try shortening it this time by avoiding going into details on Ridley's defeat in Other M. Though I certainly made the mistake in not writing the current trivia in a satisfactory way that would allow readers to include Other M on their own accord.

Going through the page's history, I also saw that I had written the paragraph below, which was also removed by you within the same edit due to "Trivia seemed excessively long":

Proteus Ridley's sudden ambush on SR388 is of alarming significance, as it not only confirms the Space Pirates are still active despite their many defeats, it also suggests that their spies within the Galactic Federation continue to leak information such as the details of Samus' mission. Despite these worrying signs, Samus ultimately decides to leave behind the last living Metroid in the Space Science Academy.

I had forgotten this one and looking back now, I think I prefer this one due to it being shorter and how it avoids going into details about the critics' views on the retcon.

In summary, it's a fact that Proteus Ridley's retconned appearance hasn't been unanimously praised. One of the reasons is how his presence on SR388 shakes the foundation on Samus' course of action that leads to the intro of Super Metroid. Rewrite it however you wish, but I believe it IS worthy of being mentioned in some shape or form. Latinlingo (talk) 07:59, June 28, 2020 (UTC)

Look, I don't diagree that Metroid often relies on a "show, don't tell" method to their storylines (in fact, I think the only real exception to that rule was Other M). Good examples are the Chozo ruins being prevalent in SR388 and especially the lab environment in the original Metroid 2. In fact, if anything, it's precisely the "show, don't tell" bit that causes me to disagree with you on the whole "Ridley followed her" claim. Unless I'm mistaken, Samus entered hyperspace/warp/whatever you want to call it in the ending, and maybe I might be wrong, but it's usually impossible in various science fiction works to track where they are headed unless you specifically sight them warping in a specific direction beforehand (and even there, you need precise coordinates to effectively stalk them). And there's very little evidence shown (ie, not merely having someone tell the audience that Ridley followed her, but actually SHOWING him follow her on-screen) of Ridley actually following her. Yes, we do see in the post-credits scene Proteus Ridley's discarded claw, but that only suggests he had fully recovered from his injuries and became his old pre-Meta Ridley self again. It still doesn't suggest anything about whether or not he actually FOLLOWED her or not. One of your earlier trivia entries even indicated that the Federation probably had spies for Mother Brain among them, so for all we know, he may have just waited until AFTER getting some confirmation from said spies of Samus heading to Ceres (and as Peabody Sam pointed out, the intro for Super Metroid indicated that Samus only left Ceres AFTER making sure everything was in working order, which implies she DID attempt to make sure the Pirates didn't try to follow her. Heck, if anything, that would reinforce the possibility that she DID anticipate the Pirates possible arrival and tried to make sure that didn't happen.). And for the record, we don't even know if they necessarily leaked the data for the actual mission. If anything, it's just as likely that Proteus Ridley and presumably any other Space Pirates nearby just tried to gain the Metroids in a last ditch effort and merely stumbled upon the Baby being with Samus by chance. And besides which, it's extremely unlikely the mission parameters involved Samus sparing a single Metroid (she if anything disobeyed orders during that time), so even if they DID leak the mission, there's no reason for them to even THINK Samus would spare the Baby.
And to be fair, the Metroid Prime games are a bit more to blame for the retcon of the Space Pirates surprise return in Super Metroid being retconned than Samus Returns was, considering Samus DID fight the Pirates in those games, two of which didn't even INVOLVE Ridley in any capacity (heck, even without Samus Returns, the fact that the Space Pirates were constantly fought up to and including Federation Force, which was previously the last Metroid game prior to Super Metroid to feature them should have made it VERY clear that the Space Pirates were far from taken down, and most certainly were still active. If anything, considering the Prime games up to Federation Force, it actually would be a surprise that the Space Pirates DIDN'T even bother to go back to SR338 again to try and cut their losses.).
And as far as cloning, didn't Fusion initially indicate that the frozen husk of Ridley was the original Ridley, and that the Space Pirate (or rather, X-parasite infected Space Pirate) presence was a rescue team trying to retrieve him? I don't think it was particularly clear-cut that it was meant to imply cloning regarding revival, even under fan assumptions. Besides, I don't think they'd put a clone on ice like Megatron/Ice Man in the Michael Bay Transformers movie. More likely they'd keep him in a vat. You know, like the various Baby clones in Fusion.
Now, don't get me wrong, if there IS any criticisms for Samus Returns, they should be noted, but only if said criticisms actually MATCH what's shown/told in the game. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 10:06, June 28, 2020 (UTC)
"Considering that Pirates had appeared in every single other game, their absence is of GREAT significance and helped amplify (plot-wise) their surprise return in Super Metroid which, according to Fusion and Other M, was their final desperate stand."
As Weedle pointed out, the Prime series had already done a great deal to undo the notion that Super Metroid was the profoundly shocking return of the soundly-defeated pirates. Not to mention that there were only three (four, I guess, if you count Fake Kraid) Space Pirates defeated in the original Metroid; hardly enough to say they were completely wiped out. So, I'll present another counterargument.
If the Space Pirates weren't a known threat anymore, what would be the purpose of exterminating the Metroid species? Yeah, they're deadly, but just declare SR388 a restricted planet to prevent any hapless explorers from wandering into their only native territory; it's not like the Metroids can just pilot a ship and take over the galaxy themselves. No, the Galactic Federation needed to exterminate the Metroids to keep them out of the wrong hands wanting to continue using them as bioweapons. Even if the Space Pirates were thought to be totally defeated, another faction could have just as easily taken up the reins, and I doubt the Federation or Samus would've been naive enough to believe that there would've been absolutely no one else posing a potential threat. Leaving the galaxy's greatest bioweapon at an undefended research station could never have been a good idea as long as the possibility remained that someone would try to take it. It didn't have to be Ridley, it could've been anyone... rival bounty hunters, greedy corps, warrior Chozo... Whether it's in real life or in sci-fi series like Star Trek, there is never such thing as "true peace in space" just because you defeated one group of bad guys.
In this case, now that Samus Returns established firmly that the Space Pirates were still active and still seeking Metroids to continue their plans, it adds extra weight to Samus's mission to SR388. There's now a more immediate and pressing need to exterminate the Metroids because there's a known ticking time bomb. And now that the Space Pirates know that Samus has the last Metroid in her possession and would likely pursue her throughout the galaxy to try taking it back... maybe Samus thought she had the right idea of leaving the baby Metroid behind in seemingly-safe Federation hands instead of taking it with her.
Or else, we can go with Other M implying that she was forced to give up the baby Metroid by Galactic Federation jerks calling it "illegal cargo". Not the best retcon, but if you think that her decision was bone-headed, then maybe it wasn't her decision to make in the first place.
Alternatively...
"Compare this to the original interpretation (Metroid 2's), where she exterminated the Metroids without the Pirates trying to stop her. This speaks volumes. The Pirates' most valued specimens, a vital portion of their plans to defeat the Federation, were being wiped out and they did... nothing. This can be interpreted as the Pirates being finally gone or its survivors too scattered to pose a threat anymore."
Consider that there wasn't a whole Space Pirate landing party arriving at SR388 to steal Metroids. There was one pirate. Just one. One with a penchant for constantly coming back no matter how many times you defeat him, but just one nonetheless. This is in stark contrast with the opening cutscene, in which an entire fleet of Space Pirates are responsible for stealing the original Metroid capsule. If the Space Pirates were really thought to be decimated pre-Super Metroid, the fact that only one pirate would be sent to reclaim their most vital bioweapon could suggest that they are on their last legs. Therefore, it would still make sense the Galactic Federation would presume the Space Pirates to be "too scattered to pose a threat anymore" rather than secretly rebuilding their forces on Zebes, justifying Samus's actions by your logic.
"I mean, what else could fans deduce from all of the above back then?"
Given that Prime went to great lengths to justify Ridley's survival in the original Metroid (via being rebuilt as Meta Ridley), then showed him progressively healing through the events of Corruption, not to mention the manga outright explains Ridley's healing factor... there was plenty of evidence pre-Other M that they were all the same individual. And aside from Corruption having Ridley "disintegrate" (conspicuously off-screen), my point is that Ridley was never canonically shown to be "totally destroyed" in any pre-Super Metroid game.
"This, among other trivia, were removed by you back in 2019 with your justification being "Trivia seemed excessively long". I figured that I could try shortening it this time by avoiding going into details on Ridley's defeat in Other M. Though I certainly made the mistake in not writing the current trivia in a satisfactory way that would allow readers to include Other M on their own accord."
Obviously, "Trivia seemed excessively long" was not my justification for removing that particular trivia point. My justification is what I discussed here in greater detail; the argument that Samus "totally destroys" Ridley every single battle (except Other M) is a questionable one, therefore its mention on this article is similarly questionable at best. Even if you want to make the case that other encounters ended prematurely due to "circumstances beyond her control" allowing him to escape... as I suggested above, the violent storm and the need to get the baby Metroid to safety do present circumstances for Samus leaving Ridley behind as soon as he's down, rather than waiting around to make sure he's totally dead.
"Going through the page's history, I also saw that I had written the paragraph below, which was also removed by you within the same edit due to "Trivia seemed excessively long":"
The reason I removed this one is because it is either redundant (it is already clear in the article that Proteus Ridley indicates that the Space Pirates are still active and seeking Metroids during Samus's SR388 mission) or speculative (presenting a fan theory explaining why the Space Pirates know about the SR388 mission), neither of which contribute encyclopedic value to the article.
"In summary, it's a fact that Proteus Ridley's retconned appearance hasn't been unanimously praised."
Here's a fun fact: I hate Yakuza. I think it's a cheaply-designed boss fight that goes on for too long and deals too much damage for a boss at this point of the game, made even worse by the fact that the last save station is a long walk away that you have to repeat every single time you are defeated by Yakuza. From browsing various websites, I can see that there are others who share my opinion, so it's a fact that there are fans that feel this way about Yakuza. However, I'm not going to present my opinions and feelings about Yakuza on its article, because it doesn't serve the encyclopedic nature of Wikitroid.
Yes, Proteus Ridley isn't unanimously praised, but nor is it unanimously criticized as your trivia makes it out to be. We are here to state the facts, and that's where I draw the line. It's true that Proteus Ridley makes a minor retcon Samus's Fusion monologue, but it's not true that Proteus Ridley seriously shakes up Samus's decision-making in Super Metroid for all the reasons I've previously outlined. It's true that Proteus Ridley doesn't take much visible damage (aside from turning red, which has almost always been Metroid visual shorthand for "close to death") and seems to heal more quickly than usual, but it's not true that this is the only time Samus doesn't totally destroy him by choice.
But once again, Metroid: Samus Returns#Reception should be the place to list reception, positive or negative. And you've already gone ahead and discussed some of the criticisms in that section (the lack of enemy variety, the common Area 8 enemies, and the fact that some fans dislike the new final boss), and that's perfectly fair as far as I'm concerned. But Proteus Ridley's article is not the place for it, at least not without a unanimous opinion in the fandom. A fandom that, despite the vocal critics, still largely celebrates Proteus Ridley as a fantastic boss battle that neatly ties the canon together. --PeabodySam (talk) 21:29, July 12, 2020 (UTC)
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