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Ridley as Proteus Ridley = First Final Boss in a Metroid game?

If Samus Returns marks the first time Ridley (as Proteus Ridley) being a final boss in a Metroid game, is the Ridley Robot from Zero Mission not counted despite being a mechanical being with Ridley's likeness? Pat141eliteTalkRangerWikiKamen Rider WikiNarutopediaSuperpower WikiStreet FighterWikitroidMMKBPR Fanon12:43,9/18/2017 12:43, September 18, 2017 (UTC)

Pretty much, since while made in Ridley's likeness, it's not the same thing as fighting the actual Ridley. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 13:47, September 18, 2017 (UTC)

Deceased category

Should Proteus Ridley's article be in the "Deceased" category? I say no. While it may be pedantic, Proteus Ridley is merely a form of Ridley, not its own distinct character. Proteus Ridley ceased to exist once he became normal Ridley. Ridley died, Proteus Ridley did not. --PeabodySam (talk) 02:28, April 29, 2020 (UTC)

Bump. --PeabodySam (talk) 01:51, June 26, 2020 (UTC)

Critical Trivia

I noticed that this was recently added to Trivia:

  • The end of the battle with Proteus Ridley is the first and only time that Samus removes herself from the premises and willingly leaves the body of her nemesis intact. This course of action is rather uncharacteristic of her, especially when taking into account their violent history together. Nearly all other encounters between them conclude with Samus destroying Ridley's body, with a few instances where he falls into a chasm beyond her reach. In particular, his first defeat on Zebes was severe to the point of taking him three years to recover.
    • As a result of Samus leaving Ridley intact on SR388 before heading to the Ceres colony where she leaves the last Metroid to a group of scientists, some Metroid fans have pointed to her being negligent and indirectly responsible for the tragedy that transpire in Super Metroid where Ridley follows her to the colony and kills everyone onboard. The retcon thus portrays her as an incompetent individual, causing further displeasure to fans who already dislike Ridley's inclusion in Samus Returns for other reasons such as his battle removing the tone and atmosphere present in the original ending to Metroid 2.

Simply put, I strongly disagree with the argument presented in this, but I'd like to see what others think before I go ahead and remove it.

First of all, the starting claim that this "is the first and only time" this happens is actually incorrect. We've seen this once before in Other M: Samus fights Ridley, he goes down, she takes a moment to inspect his unmoving body, and then she turns and walks away. Yes, Ridley gets up and flies away before she can leave the room, but this shows that Samus doesn't end every single fight by completely and utterly destroying Ridley. She defeats him and then moves on instead of verifying that he's dead, which is essentially what happens in nearly every game when you consider Ridley never died until Super Metroid.

Now, before you say Other M isn't the best example of Samus's character, I would like to go back to Metroid and specifically Zero Mission. When they created Metroid, they probably weren't planning on having a sequel featuring Ridley and Kraid, so they both explode into meaty chunks upon their defeat. While Ridley was retroactively given a healing factor showcased via Meta/Omega/Proteus Ridley, Kraid has never received a canonical explanation for his recovery, so clearly that's not meant to be canon. The remake, Zero Mission, has Ridley and Kraid go down in a series of small explosions and then vanish in a bigger explosion in the same style as other bosses, but this time they are not shown exploding into gibs like in Metroid (or Ridley in Super Metroid, which should be noted to be the first time he canonically dies). Once again, no explanation given for how Kraid could possibly recover if he literally exploded... therefore, I'm strongly inclined to believe that these aren't literal explosions, just the game illustrating that the boss is defeated in a flashy fashion. In actuality, what is more canonically likely is that Kraid and Ridley are left intact enough to survive. So, regardless of however much Ridley was "destroyed" in Zero Mission, Samus made a mistake in leaving him for dead in that game, just like she does in Samus Returns with Proteus Ridley.

With that said, note that Proteus Ridley's defeat animation shows him engulfed in a series of small explosions, much like his defeat animation in Zero Mission. The only difference is that Zero Mission simply removes his sprite from the screen after he's done exploding, while Samus Returns has the graphical fidelity to show Proteus Ridley's body as he collapses to the ground. Again, this supports the notion that Ridley didn't literally explode into nothingness in Zero Mission.

One last counterargument: the claim that Ridley needed three years to recover from Zero Mission is dubious. Nintendo has a really poor track record when it comes to dating anything after Zero Mission, with one Samus Returns commercial stating that it takes place only one year later.

Now, onto the second point. I feel like this is really unnecessary. While it's fair to mention fan criticisms of Samus Returns in the reception section of the game's article (as Latinlingo has already done), the way it's presented here comes across as really biased and one-sided. Yes, there's a vocal faction of fans who dislike Proteus Ridley's role in Samus Returns, but there's at least just as many fans who love Proteus Ridley for being a fantastic final boss, rectifying Samus/Ridley's relationship after Other M, and firmly establishing Metroid Prime's placement in canon (after some mistranslated comments caused fans to fear it was deemed non-canon). This isn't like Other M criticisms where at least there's a solid majority opinion formed in the fanbase over a decade of scrutiny.

But calling Samus "an incompetent individual", "negligent", and "indirectly responsible" for the Ceres incident is a step too far. I mean, if we're going to blame her for not doing a good enough job killing Proteus Ridley, why not blame her for everything else, starting with not doing a good enough job killing Ridley, Kraid, and Mother Brain in the original Metroid? Even if we take Proteus Ridley out of the equation, Samus leaving the baby Metroid at Ceres while fully knowing that the Space Pirates are still out there and still want Metroids is a bad decision with tragic consequences, and it's been that way long before Samus Returns came out. Blaming Proteus Ridley for this supposed Samus character derailment just feels like a real stretch to me. --PeabodySam (talk) 01:51, June 26, 2020 (UTC)

Fully agreed, and besides, we still don't know HOW Ridley tracked Samus and the Baby over to Ceres anyhow. Maybe if had it ended in a similar manner to the 100% ending for Corruption where it shows a ship ominously following Samus's ship as she warps out, we could reasonably assume Ridley stalked her to Ceres and stole the Metroid. But as it is, the only thing we can definitely say is that Ridley was at least aware of the Baby being in Samus's possession. For all we know, planted agents within the Federation merely leaked the location to Ridley and Mother Brain. So we really can't hold Samus responsible for Ridley raiding Ceres later on (which is a significantly different situation from, say, the situation in Other M, which DEFINITELY was all on her and not one of the game's better moments). If we really need to address those kinds of criticisms against Samus Returns, we should at LEAST wait a decade before doing so, to see if they pan out or if public opinion DOES in fact turn against it. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 11:28, June 26, 2020 (UTC)
Whoa, I didn't think he'd go that far. I was advising him on how to phrase fan criticisms of the overall game. Regarding "three years to recover", he's probably going by the Prime Trilogy art booklet which says Metroid Prime 1 takes place 3 years after Zero Mission, but later media has really thrown that for a loop. RoyboyX(complaints/records) 18:19, June 26, 2020 (UTC)
I tend to go by the art book because I think a promotional art book for the game it is referring to (Metroid Prime Trilogy contains Metroid Prime 1) is more trustworthy then a random Japanese commercial for a later game that isn't part of the Prime series. Besides, later media contradicts itself too much. PurpleSamurai5.0 18:39, June 26, 2020 (UTC)
I apologize for not thoroughly discussing my contributions with the staff before implementing them into the article. From now on, I give my word to verify with other members before making any substantial changes to articles.
I propose the second paragraph to be rewritten as:
As a result of Samus leaving Ridley intact on SR388 before heading to the Ceres colony where she leaves the last Metroid to a group of scientists, some Metroid fans regard the retcon as negatively impacting her character. The post-credits cutscene in Samus Returns strongly imply he made a quick recovery and followed her to the colony, leading to the tragedy on Ceres at the start of Super Metroid. This has caused some fans to dislike Ridley's inclusion in the remake, among other reasons such as his battle altering the original ending to Metroid 2.
I now present my arguments below for why this trivia information (along with the first paragraph regarding Ridley's explosive defeats) should be kept in some shape or form:
Regarding the canon material presented in Other M. Before that game came out, everyone seemed to accept the idea that Ridley had died at least once in past battles due to how some games clearly demonstrated or strongly implied his body was thoroughly destroyed. Some fans even believed that cloning was a common occurrence within the Pirate armies to explain the reappearances of notable members. It is only with Other M that we were forced into swallowing the idea that, somehow, Ridley had never died until Super Metroid and that cloning was never an option until Other M. With Prime 3 we now have to, metaphorically speaking, "squint our eyes" hard enough to believe Omega Ridley did not die in that second battle. Keep in mind Other M presents further questionable lore such as the statement that Mother Brain is the only thing capable of controlling Metroids when there is clear evidence she never could. Despite the new canon lore presented in Other M however, I believe it is always important to keep mention of how Ridley's defeats are visually presented in past titles, which is why in Wikitroid's page dedicated to him, there's a sentence near the top of the article that reads "Strangely, some of his prior battles ended with his body seemingly exploding, but in-game lore states he survived these violent defeats until Super Metroid."
Which brings me to Ridley's defeat in Zero Mission. While it is true that his explosion can be interpreted as the game illustrating his defeat in a flashy fashion, Metroid Prime Trilogy states that 3 years passed between ZM and Prime 1. In the latter game, Ridley is shown to have JUST finished recovering on the frigate Orpheon, therefore implying whatever piece(s) was left of him back on Zebes took this long to heal, and even then parts of his original body have still not recovered as they are slowly regenerating under the cybernetics throughout the entirety of the Prime saga. With such devastation inflicted onto him, it's evident that Samus tried her darndest to kill him in ZM and believed him to be dead as a result. Even the prequel manga, which is admittedly pseudo-canon, shows Samus reducing Ridley to an indistinguishable mass of burning flesh in the final chapter before letting out a warrior's cry, further strenthening the idea that she rightfully believed him to be dead based on the damage she personally inflicted onto him. Interesting to mention is that an unused Samus monologue in Prime 1 had her state that a full decade had passed after ZM, which meant that Ridley was originally meant to have taken an even longer time to heal from the severe wounds dealt to him.
Now take into account the above (the 3 year gap between ZM and Prime 1 due to the extensive damage, the manga interpretation) and compare it with the battle against Ridley in Samus Returns. The difference is as night and day. Ridley merely falls to the ground after his cybernetics simply short-circuit, she leaves, and the post-credits cutscene seemingly confirms he makes the quickest recovery in the history of the series. This actually makes alot of sense due to not only how tame his defeat was in comparison to previous games, but also how long it took for him to reappear between appearances. This is what I meant when I wrote some fans deem Samus' actions as negligent or irresponsible, because by that point in time she is FULLY aware of Ridley's ability to survive, yet she chooses to leave him in such a tame manner (in comparison to other battles) that it was practically guaranteed he would be back in a short time span. Furthermore, Samus chooses to leave Ceres unprotected despite her being the best Pirate-deterrent in existence. Why didn't Samus, say, choose to do a repeat of ZM to make sure the seemingly immortal Ridley wouldn't come back for a few years? Or stay behind on Ceres to defend it from Ridley who was definitely gonna reappear quicker than ever? But I digress. As I proposed on the changes to be made on the second trivia paragraph, all mentions of her being negligent and such will be removed.
Finally, regarding his defeat in Other M which is also quite tame. Based on what the game wants us to believe, Samus is in a troubled mental state all throughout, especially after her troubling reaction when seeing Ridley back from a "definitive" dead state. Additionally, her friend Anthony is believed to have just been murdered by him. It's safe to say that Samus is in a bad state after the battle's conclusion, as she goes to briefly grieve her friend by walking towards his gun on the floor, therefore explaining her actions to leaving Ridley on the floor. I'd like to point out that in the first trivia paragraph I wrote "Nearly all other encounters between them conclude with Samus destroying Ridley's body, with a few instances where he falls into a chasm beyond her reach." I hoped that by writing the word "Nearly", it would leave enough space for readers to include Other M's battle on their own accord without me needing to write further details. Additionally, the sentence prior to that one I wrote "This course of action is rather uncharacteristic of her, especially when taking into account their violent history together". Once more, I hoped that readers would interpret the word "history" as "events that chronologically took place before Samus Returns".
I'm open to further discuss the changes to be made on the two trivia paragraphs so they may remain in a more presentable condition, but I do not agree that they be removed altogether. Latinlingo (talk) 09:54, June 27, 2020 (UTC)
Fair enough. I'm still not entirely sure on how exactly we should deem that negligent of Samus though. Especially when there was literally no evidence that Proteus Ridley was even AWARE of the direction Samus was headed in. Yes, Proteus Ridley most certainly would have known that Samus had the Baby in possession. But that was the full extent of the knowledge going by all evidence. The most we could possibly say is that the Space Pirates most likely had spies within Ceres that notified them after they found the Baby Metroid, which probably would have happened even if Samus made sure to take care of Proteus Ridley thoroughly. Now, if they in the ending made sure to show a Space Pirate space ship stalking Samus as she warps out (you know, similar to the 100% ending for Corruption where a ship that was heavily implied to belong to Sylux was seen stalking Samus as she entered hyperspace), then we can definitely state that Samus was indeed negligent and that Ridley arriving at Ceres was indeed her fault. But as it is we really have no real way of knowing how Ridley managed to deduce Ceres was where the Baby Metroid was at, let alone that Samus was responsible for that bit beyond not actually killing him or even sufficiently wounding him (there are LOTS of research facilities owned by the Federation, especially if we go by Federation Force and the 100% ending with Sylux. And that's not even counting the BSL station or the Bottle Ship. Trying to find which research station the Federation was holding the Baby isn't exactly that easy.). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 11:13, June 27, 2020 (UTC)
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